(September 22, 2017 at 6:06 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: There are planets that have a layer of liquid water in their atmosphere.

There's no credible evidence that suggests that this planet had such a layer.

Of course, there's no credible evidence for your god, but baby steps.

There is no credible evidence for abiogenesis either, but that doesn't stop you from believing it's plausible now does it?

There is an EXAMPLE of planets with a layer of water in their atmosphere, that makes it PLAUSIBLE. It is not known where the water on Earth originated from, so who's to say It didn't form in the atmosphere, seeing how it's basically condensed gas.

Meanwhile you haven't seen an example of abiogenesis anywhere...

(September 22, 2017 at 10:32 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 22, 2017 at 6:06 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: There are planets that have a layer of liquid water in their atmosphere.

There's no credible evidence that suggests that this planet had such a layer.

Of course, there's no credible evidence for your god, but baby steps.

There is no credible evidence for abiogenesis either, but that doesn't stop you from believing it's plausible now does it?

There is an EXAMPLE of planets with a layer of water in their atmosphere, that makes it PLAUSIBLE. It is not known where the water on Earth originated from, so who's to say It didn't form in the atmosphere, seeing how it's basically condensed gas.

Meanwhile you haven't seen an example of abiogenesis anywhere...

You're really good at false equivalencies and straw manning. And demonstrating your blind ignorance of science. BTW, those aren't compliments. Just in case you were confused.

(September 22, 2017 at 11:04 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(September 22, 2017 at 10:32 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: There is no credible evidence for abiogenesis either, but that doesn't stop you from believing it's plausible now does it?

There is an EXAMPLE of planets with a layer of water in their atmosphere, that makes it PLAUSIBLE. It is not known where the water on Earth originated from, so who's to say It didn't form in the atmosphere, seeing how it's basically condensed gas.

Meanwhile you haven't seen an example of abiogenesis anywhere...

You're really good at false equivalencies and straw manning. And demonstrating your blind ignorance of science. BTW, those aren't compliments. Just in case you were confused.

There is no false equivalence you muppet, the point is nothing I've said is implausible, If you want to maintain that there isn't evidence of something because you haven't observed it, then that should apply across the board right?

When you don't understand that you're making false equivalencies, then of course you're going to reach those false conclusions. Try thinking before you say anything else, I don't think you'll find it THAT painful (or scary).

"Liquid water is just condensed gas."

Huggy, everything that can exist in a liquid state below its boiling point and above its melting point is just condensed gas. It's technically correct, but like with all of your perceived gotchas, utterly meaningless. For starters, please remember that you're talking about a layer of liquid water in the atmosphere, not water vapor. Also remember that your example is so unlike earth as to be a meaningless comparison. Think about why liquid water couldn't be an atmospheric layer here (because I'm sure you're going to miss the mark, here's a couple of hints: rain, and the melting points of nitrogen and oxygen).

Regarding water on earth, scientists believe it was deposited via comets, asteroids, and meteors, however there are some studies now suggesting that at least some of it formed inside the mantle due to the proper chemicals being under intense heat and pressure (https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...he-mantle/). Once again, science is a process, not a religion, so sometimes answers change.

Regarding abiogenesis, you're right, there's no example of it happening. However, there's no example of your god actually creating life either, and it's far more rational to believe that the origin of life is some as-yet undiscovered natural process than the deliberate workings of a needy god.

So, to conclude, no, it's not plausible that earth had an atmospheric layer of liquid water.

(September 23, 2017 at 12:58 am)KevinM1 Wrote: "Liquid water is just condensed gas."

Huggy, everything that can exist in a liquid state below its boiling point and above its melting point is just condensed gas.  It's technically correct, but like with all of your perceived gotchas, utterly meaningless.  For starters, please remember that you're talking about a layer of liquid water in the atmosphere, not water vapor.  Also remember that your example is so unlike earth as to be a meaningless comparison.  Think about why liquid water couldn't be an atmospheric layer here (because I'm sure you're going to miss the mark, here's a couple of hints: rain, and the melting points of nitrogen and oxygen).

Regarding water on earth, scientists believe it was deposited via comets, asteroids, and meteors, however there are some studies now suggesting that at least some of it formed inside the mantle due to the proper chemicals being under intense heat and pressure (https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...he-mantle/).  Once again, science is a process, not a religion, so sometimes answers change.

Regarding abiogenesis, you're right, there's no example of it happening.  However, there's no example of your god actually creating life either, and it's far more rational to believe that the origin of life is some as-yet undiscovered natural process than the deliberate workings of a needy god.

So, to conclude, no, it's not plausible that earth had an atmospheric layer of liquid water.

I have read of simulated primordial ooze experiments yielding amino acids, the building blocks of proteins and precursors to biological life, ergo there's at least some measure of plausibility to abiogenesis. Given that we've had billions of years for it to emerge and evolve (the theoretical origin point of abiogenesis), the required timeframe for life to have advanced to the state it's in today is exactly what we've had and would expect in order to give rise to it. Whereas the alternative is a transdimensional wizard speaking everything into existence from magic, all the while refusing to explain where he himself came from.

(September 23, 2017 at 1:25 am)Astonished Wrote:

(September 23, 2017 at 12:58 am)KevinM1 Wrote: "Liquid water is just condensed gas."

Huggy, everything that can exist in a liquid state below its boiling point and above its melting point is just condensed gas.  It's technically correct, but like with all of your perceived gotchas, utterly meaningless.  For starters, please remember that you're talking about a layer of liquid water in the atmosphere, not water vapor.  Also remember that your example is so unlike earth as to be a meaningless comparison.  Think about why liquid water couldn't be an atmospheric layer here (because I'm sure you're going to miss the mark, here's a couple of hints: rain, and the melting points of nitrogen and oxygen).

Regarding water on earth, scientists believe it was deposited via comets, asteroids, and meteors, however there are some studies now suggesting that at least some of it formed inside the mantle due to the proper chemicals being under intense heat and pressure (https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...he-mantle/).  Once again, science is a process, not a religion, so sometimes answers change.

Regarding abiogenesis, you're right, there's no example of it happening.  However, there's no example of your god actually creating life either, and it's far more rational to believe that the origin of life is some as-yet undiscovered natural process than the deliberate workings of a needy god.

So, to conclude, no, it's not plausible that earth had an atmospheric layer of liquid water.

I have read of simulated primordial ooze experiments yielding amino acids, the building blocks of proteins and precursors to biological life, ergo there's at least some measure of plausibility to abiogenesis. Given that we've had billions of years for it to emerge and evolve (the theoretical origin point of abiogenesis), the required timeframe for life to have advanced to the state it's in today is exactly what we've had and would expect in order to give rise to it. Whereas the alternative is a transdimensional wizard speaking everything into existence from magic, all the while refusing to explain where he himself came from.

Yeah, everything I've read suggests that the various experiments on abiogenesis are getting close. That it's more a question of when they'll crack it than if they will.

(September 23, 2017 at 12:58 am)KevinM1 Wrote: ...For starters, please remember that you're talking about a layer of liquid water in the atmosphere, not water vapor.

And there's a limit to how saturated the atmosphere can become before the water literally precipitates out.  Based on what we currently know about chemistry, there is no way to suspend enough water above the Earth to create the Noachide flood.

I'm fairly sure that any physical conditions that would allow for that much water to be suspended in the sky would also be inimical to life on earth, thereby obviating any need for Biblegod to drown everything -- virtually everything, except for perhaps some extremophiles living in deep-sea trenches, would already be dead.

I don't even know why believers are trying to science up that stupid fable, when they can just say "Magic!" and be done with it.

---

(September 23, 2017 at 1:46 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Yeah, everything I've read suggests that the various experiments on abiogenesis are getting close.  That it's more a question of when they'll crack it than if they will.

I expect to see it happen in my lifetime.

(September 22, 2017 at 10:32 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 22, 2017 at 6:06 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: There are planets that have a layer of liquid water in their atmosphere.

There's no credible evidence that suggests that this planet had such a layer.

Of course, there's no credible evidence for your god, but baby steps.

There is no credible evidence for abiogenesis either, but that doesn't stop you from believing it's plausible now does it?

There is an EXAMPLE of planets with a layer of water in their atmosphere, that makes it PLAUSIBLE. It is not known where the water on Earth originated from, so who's to say It didn't form in the atmosphere, seeing how it's basically condensed gas.

Meanwhile you haven't seen an example of abiogenesis anywhere...

Abiogenesis is simply what's left over when you take magic off the table.  Any legitimate explanation will uncover the natural causes.  That isn't 'faith-based'.  That is just looking to apply the only kind of explanation we accept in our day to day lives.

(September 23, 2017 at 12:58 am)KevinM1 Wrote: "Liquid water is just condensed gas."

Huggy, everything that can exist in a liquid state below its boiling point and above its melting point is just condensed gas.  It's technically correct, but like with all of your perceived gotchas, utterly meaningless.  For starters, please remember that you're talking about a layer of liquid water in the atmosphere, not water vapor.  Also remember that your example is so unlike earth as to be a meaningless comparison.  Think about why liquid water couldn't be an atmospheric layer here (because I'm sure you're going to miss the mark, here's a couple of hints: rain, and the melting points of nitrogen and oxygen).

Regarding water on earth, scientists believe it was deposited via comets, asteroids, and meteors, however there are some studies now suggesting that at least some of it formed inside the mantle due to the proper chemicals being under intense heat and pressure (https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...he-mantle/).  Once again, science is a process, not a religion, so sometimes answers change.

Regarding abiogenesis, you're right, there's no example of it happening.  However, there's no example of your god actually creating life either, and it's far more rational to believe that the origin of life is some as-yet undiscovered natural process than the deliberate workings of a needy god.

So, to conclude, no, it's not plausible that earth had an atmospheric layer of liquid water.

*emphasis mine*
Show me where I stated that the water was in liquid form? I thought I made it perfectly clear that the water could of been in any form other than liquid, I don't know... I wasn't there.

(September 21, 2017 at 1:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Water can take forms other than liquid...

Not to mention that the Bible states that a mist watered the ground.

Which makes your conclusion pretty much irrelevant.