(September 27, 2017 at 12:23 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: There's also a kind of interesting paradox about protests involving national symbols in my mind. To disrespect the flag is to disrespect all that it stands for which is to disrespect your right to disrespect it. The freedoms and liberties represented by the flag are also the remedies to the grievances motivating protest against it. So in a way its kind of like protesting the very thing you hope to achieve. I mean, if Americans cannot stand united in their respect for the symbols that represent our liberties, the principles that protect them, and the people who fought and died for them then what else could possible unite us as one nation?

An Islamic proverb I learnt in Iran is perfect here: The finger pointing at the Moon is not the Moon. Speaking as a veteran, that flag doesn't represent me. That flag represent the freedoms ensconced in our Bill of Rights. But that flag, that anthem, none of those things are the Bill of Rights.

There is no paradox. Burning the flag is not burning the freedom ... it is exalting it. To think otherwise is to fetishize the trappings of freedom at the expense of freedom itself.

(September 27, 2017 at 12:23 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Secondly, there is a time and a place for everything. Military funerals are not an appropriate place to protest against gay marriage. The Westbound Baptist Church may have had the  right but that didn't make it right. Look, I know this supposed to be about police brutality. Maybe they should protest in front of City Hall or a Police station and not at sporting events, concerts, and other performances where people go to get away from politics and their everyday lives. People want go out with the family, tailgate, and have fun, not be preached at. These kinds of protests are about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

Well, the whole point of a protest is to discomfit the complacent, now isn't it? No doubt you'd rather not think about the unjust deaths of young black men at the hands of cops, and you might even spend a few hundred bucks on NFL tickets trying to achieve that goal, but I guarantee you you're a lot more comfortable than is the young black man who just got the shit beat out of him ... or worse.

1. The american flag is not what makes people free .

2.Wooter wants protest only were it won't effect him .

(September 27, 2017 at 3:51 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

---

This guy, who is the biggest Uncle Tom in the country, told a riveting story of what it means to be black in 'murrica.  Doesn't matter if you are a senator or a homeless veteran with PTSD.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-...08d332eaa0

Quote:Black GOP Senator Talks About Being Pulled Over By Police 7 Times In One Year

“This is a situation that happens all across the country,” Sen. Tim Scott said, “whether we want to recognize it or not.”

---

Quote:Now I understand that whitey doesn't want to recognize shit, that goes with the territory.  But let's not pretend that the flag doesn't serve other agendas too.






But when that shit gets trotted out your beloved fucktard of a president says both sides are "the same."

It pays to remember that Trump's daddy was a KKK member.  Trump is a Jim Crow baby and he's racist through and through.

It's honestly baffling that so many people are (seemingly intentionally) misreading wallym's posts in this thread.

It's also entertaining.

So on the one hand people are saying
"minorities and Blacks are treated poorly" and protest during sport events which is when most people tune in.

Instead of some people going "okay wow I can't believe this is still an issue I need to support my fellow brothers and sisters"....what they really do is choose to focus on when the issue is protested.

It's like they do acknowledge that there is an issue but not only are they not willing to do anything about it, they also get triggered seeing someone else trying to do something about it. "yeah yeah yeah we get it you're treated like shit and killed off on a daily basis you sob's but stfu with your protests for a second I'm trying to enjoy the game".... Baffling.

Why does this issue has to be called political? It's a issue affecting humans. I would say it's a humans rights issue. When government officials gets away not once, or twice, or thrice but many different times for killing a minority or a black person that means the government endorses these activities.

...so the message I get from this as an outsider is.. A lot of people still hold very strong racist views and people that are saying "it's disrespectful to flag" are either racist themselves or really really ignorant.

Quote:Rodgers said the protest was not intended to disrespect the military, but rather to stress unity.
"This is about equality," Rodgers said. "This is about unity and love and growing together as a society, and starting a conversation around something that may be a little bit uncomfortable for people. But we've got to come together and talk about these things and grow as a community, as a connected group of individuals in our society, and we're going to continue to show love and unity."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ft...106055978/

Good luck Aaron.

(September 27, 2017 at 3:47 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'll say it again, he picked that time (singing of the anthem) to get his protest noticed.

Of course.

(September 27, 2017 at 3:47 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It initially had nothing to do with the flag or anthem. A valid protest as far as I'm concerned.

I see no reason why it cannot be principled as well as useful timing.

(September 27, 2017 at 4:58 pm)mlmooney89 Wrote:

(September 27, 2017 at 3:21 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: And how many people know the whole poem (I sure didn't)? Which parts are racist that are sung at ball games? That's all most people know. When they defend the limited part they know and then are told it is racist (intimating because they defend it they are racist) feels a little bit like hitting below the belt.

So because people haven't read the entire bible to know there are bad parts excuses the bible and what it stands for? Just like the In God We Trust is outdated and needs to be removed I feel like more people should know where that song came from, what it is about, and get a new one. I know it is drastic but oh well.

Hey, I agree, that one stanza(?) is bad/racist. Maybe that's why most don't know it, including me until now. Once they do know and still don't acknowledge then I'd think they are racist. But prior to that, no, just ignorant, same as with a lot of the religious. 

Let me ask, can a racist or the religious do something good? In part or in whole, especially if it has little or nothing to do with race or religion?

---

(September 28, 2017 at 8:38 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 27, 2017 at 3:47 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'll say it again, he picked that time (singing of the anthem) to get his protest noticed.

Of course.

(September 27, 2017 at 3:47 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It initially had nothing to do with the flag or anthem. A valid protest as far as I'm concerned.

I see no reason why it cannot be principled as well as useful timing.

Not saying that it's not principled. Just saying that I don't think the flag/anthem was not the initial motivation, even though it fits into the protest agenda.

---

(September 27, 2017 at 7:18 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Which parts are racist that are sung at ball games? That's all most people know.

Fuck, MH.  Most people think the last two words of the anthem are "Play Ball!"

Hell, most people don't even know all of the words to begin with. You see it all the time.

(September 28, 2017 at 12:07 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: It's honestly baffling that so many people are (seemingly intentionally) misreading wallym's posts in this thread.

It's also entertaining.

It seems like it'd have to be intentional, because it's so stupid, but I'm pretty sure it's not.  Although maybe you're saying it's intentional will provide an out for them to escape the cycle of dipshittery. This happens a lot to me on here.  It's like people are telemarketers or poorly designed AI.  It's definitely interesting from a sociological perspective to see how people react to things.

(September 28, 2017 at 8:38 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Not saying that it's not principled. Just saying that I don't think the flag/anthem was not the initial motivation, even though it fits into the protest agenda.

I'd imagine that when it comes to Kaepernick's motivations, he's the authority.