(September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Arsoo Wrote: I appreciate everyone's answers, but I am still wondering, why do you all think that hellish ndes seem to mention demonic creatures torturing them? I mean, that's not something religion teaches, and it is not something most people with asscociate with hell.

Arsoo,

You are probably being influenced by Zoroastrian beliefs, even though you may not have a clue as to what the Zoroastrian religion is.

"Then I saw the souls of those whom serpents sting and ever devour their tongues. And I asked thus: 'What sin was committed by those, whose soul suffers so severe a punishment?' Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said, thus: 'These are the souls of those liars and irreverent [or 'untruthful'] speakers who, in the world, spoke much falsehood and lies and profanity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Arda_Viraf

Most Christian and Islamic beliefs are based on Zoroastrian beliefs.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

(September 30, 2017 at 6:27 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Arsoo Wrote: I appreciate everyone's answers, but I am still wondering, why do you all think that hellish ndes seem to mention demonic creatures torturing them? I mean, that's not something religion teaches, and it is not something most people with asscociate with hell.

Arsoo,

You are probably being influenced by Zoroastrian beliefs, even though you may not have a clue as to what the Zoroastrian religion is.

"Then I saw the souls of those whom serpents sting and ever devour their tongues. And I asked thus: 'What sin was committed by those, whose soul suffers so severe a punishment?' Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said, thus: 'These are the souls of those liars and irreverent [or 'untruthful'] speakers who, in the world, spoke much falsehood and lies and profanity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Arda_Viraf

Most Christian and Islamic beliefs are based on Zoroastrian beliefs.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

I know what you mean but I'm taking about Christian youtube channels and Christian writers who claim they were "bad" or "unsaved" until this experience in hell where they were tortured, they called out for help, and either Jesus, or an angel, or God rescues them. There are many testimonies of these and I want to know why they are so consistent.

(September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Arsoo Wrote: I appreciate everyone's answers, but I am still wondering, why do you all think that hellish ndes seem to mention demonic creatures torturing them? I mean, that's not something religion teaches, and it is not something most people with asscociate with hell.

Demonic imagery has been associated with Hell for a long time. Here is the third triptych from Bosch's "The Garden of Earthly Delights":



This is over 500 years old. Priests have been trying to keep their sheep in line with big, bad wolf stories for a long, long time. For all of us born in the 20th century we have all seen scary demon movies too.

Arsoo, your fear of hell is totally understandable.
Any human being who is taught about hell at a young age and believes it will have trouble when they cross over to non-belief.
People who weren't indoctrinated as children wouldn't understand what it feels like.
It takes time. I think you'll get over it eventually.
Everyone has irrational fears of some type of another.
Your fear of hell is neither more nor less irrational, considering what you were taught.

(September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Arsoo Wrote: I appreciate everyone's answers, but I am still wondering, why do you all think that hellish ndes seem to mention demonic creatures torturing them?

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Quote:I mean, that's not something religion teaches, and it is not something most people with asscociate with hell.

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(September 30, 2017 at 2:03 am)Arsoo Wrote: Being a young adult, the idea of hell doesn't really make a whole lot of sense- yet I still fear it! I think it makes sense that the concept would have been created to scare people into being law abiding citizens in a era where law didn't exist. There was no police to stop them, so fear was the only surefire method. Today, people still buy into the fear. Although this explanation makes the most sense, I still fear the concept, that if I don't believe and I end up being incorrect, that I may suffer an afterlife of torture. Some of my fear stems from a few videos and books I have read about people who make the claim that they visited hell-- I KNOW! Being a young adult I should know better than to buy into some propaganda online or in a book, but for me, it's easier said than done. I want to let go of this, but I feel the best way to do this is to write down why I fear it, and deduce some logical conclusions with the help of others on a site where religion isn't the primary focus. On the contrary, logic is the primary focus.
I saw a few videos where people either had a Near Death Experience, or had a dream that they visited hell. What I found to be somewhat frightening was the fact that many people described the same concepts in their versions of hell. Commonly, they were:
- fire and brimstone
- demons which look like reptiles that attack them
- the people who say they went to hell often report being put into a cage or a cube
- they hear other people suffering and whaling
- often they get burnt or beaten, and when they lose a piece of skin or a body part, it grows back and they get tortured again.
Now, I know this all sounds like some fairy tale, but I saw at least 10 accounts like this. I don't know what to make of it. I know the concept of fire can be found as early as Augistine in the 300s or 400s, and I know the bible implies torment to those who do badly in their lives. Much of the imagery isn't too much of a shock there, but the idea that people report a multitude of cases seeing demons which they report look similar among accounts, and often torture or laugh at people suffering is what I cannot understand. Being raised Christian, I always had an image of what hell may look like. I could totally imagine how my brain during a Near death experience or a dream could create most of the fire and suffering imagery, but I would never expect hell to be filled with demons who look like reptiles. I asked some of my Christian friends, and they say the same thing. Why then, is this demon thing so consistent across "hellish" experiences? If I could get a logical answer to that, then I would be willing to say that these experiences are nothing more than a brain that is scared and confused trying to fill in the gaps during an episode. Does anyone have a plausible explanation here? It would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and have a great day,
Arsoo

When are people going to wake up and prosecute the people who do this shit to kids? Fuck me.

This makes free will an absolute nonsense term. This goes beyond carrot and stick. What kind of god dangles this and 'heaven' (which is basically going to be psychological torture for eternity as opposed to physical) over our heads? What kind of god creates us with a biological impossibility to actually follow his bullshit rules so condemnation is inevitable? What kind of god creates such a thing in the first place? What kind of god who believes in justice or mercy uses an unending punishment for a finite crime that he himself has regularly violated and yet holds himself above? What kind of loving god doesn't realize the difference between conditional and unconditional love so as to hold our feelings for him hostage?

Just content yourself knowing that everyone who thinks they're going to heaven is in all likelihood still going to hell for being unrepentant sinners (they're the Dunning-Kruger-est folk out there) so you'll have plenty of company to help distribute the temperature down there more evenly, and how absurd the idea of a god who at one time killed the entire world and then flip-flopped and decided to offer mercy, except that it negated the previously held idea that the afterlife was more of a neutral ground like Hades' underworld and gentle Jesus meek and mild was the one who came up with eternal torment. And heaven cannot possibly be what they think it is or that they'll still be themselves there (unless as they sometimes say, that heaven is the endless contemplation of the suffering of the damned; THAT part I believe. But even that has to get old after a while. But it sure suits cocksuckers like Pat Robertson and the like.)

(September 30, 2017 at 2:03 am)Arsoo Wrote: Being a young adult, the idea of hell doesn't really make a whole lot of sense- yet I still fear it! I think it makes sense that the concept would have been created to scare people into being law abiding citizens in a era where law didn't exist. There was no police to stop them, so fear was the only surefire method. Today, people still buy into the fear. Although this explanation makes the most sense, I still fear the concept, that if I don't believe and I end up being incorrect, that I may suffer an afterlife of torture. Some of my fear stems from a few videos and books I have read about people who make the claim that they visited hell-- I KNOW! Being a young adult I should know better than to buy into some propaganda online or in a book, but for me, it's easier said than done. I want to let go of this, but I feel the best way to do this is to write down why I fear it, and deduce some logical conclusions with the help of others on a site where religion isn't the primary focus. On the contrary, logic is the primary focus.
I saw a few videos where people either had a Near Death Experience, or had a dream that they visited hell. What I found to be somewhat frightening was the fact that many people described the same concepts in their versions of hell. Commonly, they were:
- fire and brimstone
- demons which look like reptiles that attack them
- the people who say they went to hell often report being put into a cage or a cube
- they hear other people suffering and whaling
- often they get burnt or beaten, and when they lose a piece of skin or a body part, it grows back and they get tortured again.
Now, I know this all sounds like some fairy tale, but I saw at least 10 accounts like this. I don't know what to make of it. I know the concept of fire can be found as early as Augistine in the 300s or 400s, and I know the bible implies torment to those who do badly in their lives. Much of the imagery isn't too much of a shock there, but the idea that people report a multitude of cases seeing demons which they report look similar among accounts, and often torture or laugh at people suffering is what I cannot understand. Being raised Christian, I always had an image of what hell may look like. I could totally imagine how my brain during a Near death experience or a dream could create most of the fire and suffering imagery, but I would never expect hell to be filled with demons who look like reptiles. I asked some of my Christian friends, and they say the same thing. Why then, is this demon thing so consistent across "hellish" experiences? If I could get a logical answer to that, then I would be willing to say that these experiences are nothing more than a brain that is scared and confused trying to fill in the gaps during an episode. Does anyone have a plausible explanation here? It would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and have a great day,
Arsoo

But think how hell, if it existed, would REALLY work.

See, you presuppose an infinite, omnipotent and omniscient God and how would He design Hell?  (The logistics and operating parameters and procedures, etc.)

The best possible hell (for God) would be something very much like this:

God, since in this scenario, is omniscient, He knows EVERYTHING.  So, among everything He knows, is precisely what your eternal souls end state would be after an infinite amount of torment for an infinite amount of time.  So why would he muck around with a Hell that literally takes forever to do its job?  Instantly upon arrival in Hell, your immortal soul would be transmogrified into that end state.  Instead of building up to an infinitely tormented state over an infinite amount of time, God would hit you with it ALL AT ONCE.

WOMP !!!!

And there you are, or more precisely, there your immortal soul is, infinitely tormented for an infinite amount of time, instantaneously !!!


See how much worse that is?  Instead of building up to that final state infinitely slowly, ZORCH !!!    You absorb it all in ZERO amount of time !!!!


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZPPPTHTHTHTHTHTHJKKJKKKKXXXX !!!  and you are all tormented completely and infinitely !!!!




PRAISE GOD AND HIS EFFICIENT AND PERFECT HELL !!!!

(September 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Arsoo Wrote: I appreciate everyone's answers, but I am still wondering, why do you all think that hellish ndes seem to mention demonic creatures torturing them? I mean, that's not something religion teaches, and it is not something most people with asscociate with hell.

The religious use it as a marketing tool.

(October 1, 2017 at 11:05 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(September 30, 2017 at 2:03 am)Arsoo Wrote: Being a young adult, the idea of hell doesn't really make a whole lot of sense- yet I still fear it! I think it makes sense that the concept would have been created to scare people into being law abiding citizens in a era where law didn't exist. There was no police to stop them, so fear was the only surefire method. Today, people still buy into the fear. Although this explanation makes the most sense, I still fear the concept, that if I don't believe and I end up being incorrect, that I may suffer an afterlife of torture. Some of my fear stems from a few videos and books I have read about people who make the claim that they visited hell-- I KNOW! Being a young adult I should know better than to buy into some propaganda online or in a book, but for me, it's easier said than done. I want to let go of this, but I feel the best way to do this is to write down why I fear it, and deduce some logical conclusions with the help of others on a site where religion isn't the primary focus. On the contrary, logic is the primary focus.
I saw a few videos where people either had a Near Death Experience, or had a dream that they visited hell. What I found to be somewhat frightening was the fact that many people described the same concepts in their versions of hell. Commonly, they were:
- fire and brimstone
- demons which look like reptiles that attack them
- the people who say they went to hell often report being put into a cage or a cube
- they hear other people suffering and whaling
- often they get burnt or beaten, and when they lose a piece of skin or a body part, it grows back and they get tortured again.
Now, I know this all sounds like some fairy tale, but I saw at least 10 accounts like this. I don't know what to make of it. I know the concept of fire can be found as early as Augistine in the 300s or 400s, and I know the bible implies torment to those who do badly in their lives. Much of the imagery isn't too much of a shock there, but the idea that people report a multitude of cases seeing demons which they report look similar among accounts, and often torture or laugh at people suffering is what I cannot understand. Being raised Christian, I always had an image of what hell may look like. I could totally imagine how my brain during a Near death experience or a dream could create most of the fire and suffering imagery, but I would never expect hell to be filled with demons who look like reptiles. I asked some of my Christian friends, and they say the same thing. Why then, is this demon thing so consistent across "hellish" experiences? If I could get a logical answer to that, then I would be willing to say that these experiences are nothing more than a brain that is scared and confused trying to fill in the gaps during an episode. Does anyone have a plausible explanation here? It would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and have a great day,
Arsoo

But think how hell, if it existed, would REALLY work.

See, you presuppose an infinite, omnipotent and omniscient God and how would He design Hell?  (The logistics and operating parameters and procedures, etc.)

The best possible hell (for God) would be something very much like this:

God, since in this scenario, is omniscient, He knows EVERYTHING.  So, among everything He knows, is precisely what your eternal souls end state would be after an infinite amount of torment for an infinite amount of time.  So why would he muck around with a Hell that literally takes forever to do its job?  Instantly upon arrival in Hell, your immortal soul would be transmogrified into that end state.  Instead of building up to an infinitely tormented state over an infinite amount of time, God would hit you with it ALL AT ONCE.

WOMP !!!!

And there you are, or more precisely, there your immortal soul is, infinitely tormented for an infinite amount of time, instantaneously !!!


See how much worse that is?  Instead of building up to that final state infinitely slowly, ZORCH !!!    You absorb it all in ZERO amount of time !!!!


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZPPPTHTHTHTHTHTHJKKJKKKKXXXX !!!  and you are all tormented completely and infinitely !!!!




PRAISE GOD AND HIS EFFICIENT AND PERFECT HELL !!!!

Best post ever!!! You win the internet for today! You are a fucking nut!

And another advantage to hell working this way is a damned individual spends more time in the infinitely punished state.  Die and zip, you're infinitely punished and get to look forward to an infinite duration of already being infinitely tormented, INSTEAD of building up to that infinitely tormented state after an infinite amount of time.

See how much more a given soul will suffer with this plan??  It's infinitely more suffering over the other kind of hell.
And that's the idea, after all, why accept a lesser, less effective and less efficient hell ??


Demand the best !!!