I'm gonna focus on scientifical research not philosophical view, mainly Libets experiment.
Now the experiment of Libet shows that when it comes to our movements the subconious makes the decision not us , our conciouss mind can only veto the movement. But some interpret this experiment saying that we don't have free will.
Can't agree, if this is what this experiment shows than we are the slaves of our unconciouss mind . It can be true because lets say that for an example you are in to the club and you see a beautifull girl , your unconciouss wants you to go there and fuck her( rape) , we all know that this isn't true, despite of how much we would want to do that thing we can stop ourselfs.
Now to go back on Libet s experiment , the main problem here is that we can't do two thing at the same time , Libet told the participants that when they chose to move their hand they should point the exact time on the clock, that means chosing and declaring at the same time , it can't be possible , soo what really happened there is that the unconciouss mind took care of the motor function and just made the participant aware of it so that he could focus on declaring when the decision was made.
Another example of this thing happening. A few days ago I was driving someone to a wedding, but at the same time I was thinking about the problem of free will, when I reached the intersection where I should have made a right , I turned left without knowing . Same thing , the unconciouss took care of my motor function turning left on the road I usually take to go to school to let the conciouss mind focus on a grater problem.

Scientifical?

(October 25, 2017 at 3:47 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: [edit]
..., the main problem here is that we can't do two thing at the same time , ...
[edit]

I can pat my head and rub my tummy at the same time.

But don't ask me to walk also, that's when it all goes south.

(October 25, 2017 at 3:47 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: I'm gonna focus on scientifical research not philosophical view, mainly Libets experiment.
Now the experiment of Libet shows that when it comes to our movements the subconious makes the decision not us , our conciouss mind can only veto the movement. But some interpret this experiment saying that we don't have free will.
Can't agree, if this is what this experiment shows than we are the slaves of our unconciouss mind . It can be true because lets say that for an example you are in to the club and you see a beautifull girl , your unconciouss wants you to go there and fuck her( rape) , we all know that this isn't true, despite of how much we would want to do that thing we can stop ourselfs.
Now to go back on Libet s experiment , the main problem here is that we can't do two thing at the same time , Libet told the participants that when they chose to move their hand they should point the exact time on the clock, that means chosing and declaring at the same time , it can't be possible , soo what really happened there is that the unconciouss mind took care of the motor function and just made the participant aware of it so that he could focus on declaring when the decision was made.
Another example of this thing happening. A few days ago I was driving someone to a wedding, but at the same time I was thinking about the problem of free will, when I reached the intersection where I should have made a right , I turned left without knowing . Same thing , the unconciouss took care of my motor function turning left on the road I usually take to go to school to let the conciouss mind focus on a grater problem.

Some people like to say we have "free won't" as opposed to free will on that account.  That does seem to be the case to some extent.  In some ways it does feel as if there are unconscious impulses in a variety of directions, some of which we exercise our veto upon while others we involve ourselves consciously to further along.  

But I think people envision the workings of the unconscious mind as more brutish than necessary.  Why should the unconscious mind be incapable of education and refinement over time any more than our conscious minds?  Conscious or not, it seems as if we cultivate or distill a 'self' over time, not by subduing our unconscious mind, but simply by paying attention to the consequences that attend the impulses we choose to ride.  

At no point do we -meaning our conscious minds- simply graduate to total cranial domination.  The mind is conscious and unconscious in its functioning and that is for the best.  But we're not at war with our unconscious mind, or at least it is best if we're not.

Right ... anyone else with a dog avatar?

If not I have many, many dog pics available.

(October 25, 2017 at 7:49 am)Whateverist Wrote: If not I have many, many dog pics available.

I've been saying it for a couple years, but I'm going to steal one of those dogs.

I beat up my unconscious with lithium.

Is this truly free, or do we have to pay "shipping and handling"?