(August 14, 2011 at 10:55 pm)coffeeveritas Wrote: People in Rwanda have not been condemned, they didn't do anything wrong (well, the people that were killed certainly didn't).

The tutsi that were massacred were part of a minority that had systematically oppressed the hutus for generations.

Doesnt mean it was right, but there was a reason for the massacre, people had a genuine greivance.

Oh please, coffeeveritas, you mentioned Rob Bell, the same Michigan pastor is arguing for universalism, yet denies being a universalist.

I don't care whether he's labelled as a heretic by Christians or not, its a waste of time debating about someone who is intellectually dishonest about their own position, or cannot identify what their core-beliefs are, regardless of their argument.

Well, on the one hand, it does sort of remove the urgency from fire-and-brimstone preachers. On the other hand, considering that it appears that making Hell finite definitely makes Jehovah seem less like a complete monster.

All that said, there's no evidence for the existence of Hell outside of The Bible, so this is ultimately pointless.

(August 15, 2011 at 12:18 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: The tutsi that were massacred were part of a minority that had systematically oppressed the hutus for generations.

I think you have it the other way around. Tutsi appeared slight less "negro" to white eyes and were therefore credited with greater "civilizability" than the more "negro" looking Hutus. Consequently under European Colonial administration such education, power and privilege that the Europeans were willing to cede to the natives were given primarily to the Tutsis, despite the fact that Hutus were the majority ethnic group. The educational, social, financial, and administrative advantages of Tutsis continued after the colonial era.

It was partly demogogury taking advantage of the Hutu resentment against perceived inequity that the Rowandan genocity by Hutus against Tutsis erupted.

Rob Bell is by no means the first one to write about the demise of Hell and/or the duration of horrific torture.

Hell Destroyed is an interesting article - only in the fact that it shows yet again how Christians can't even agree with Christians about their fairy tale afterlife.

Utter god damn nonsense no matter how you look at it.

Quote:Utter god damn nonsense no matter how you look at it.

Hell ( and heaven, for that matter) are human concoctions and can be disposed of by humans whenever the fuck they feel like it.

(August 15, 2011 at 12:59 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Oh please, coffeeveritas, you mentioned Rob Bell, the same Michigan pastor is arguing for universalism, yet denies being a universalist.

I don't care whether he's labelled as a heretic by Christians or not, its a waste of time debating about someone who is intellectually dishonest about their own position, or cannot identify what their core-beliefs are, regardless of their argument.

I see you listen to sensationalist news rather than wanting to get to the facts. Rob Bell is certainly well respected, and he isn't a Universalist, nor is he arguing for it.

"We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life."

I bet you are Rob, I bet you are. Thats what you do when you lose market share, you offer a similar product.

(August 15, 2011 at 7:38 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: So now the xtians have initiated a "get out of hell free" gambit??? :S

ROMLMFAO!!

I like the little laughing chorus line. Yeah it kind of seems to come from no where, but this isn't a new idea, just one that wasn't as popular. It's been in church history since very early on. I'm hoping that if Christians don't have the "turn or burn" mindset we can just talk to people and not worry about it so much. I mean, me personally, I think talking about atheism and Christianity is interesting, but I don't see the need to talk to people who don't believe in God as if an atheist is all that they are. Like their whole life is defined by the one position and they have no hobbies or interests otherwise.

When is eternal (everlasting) not eternal, as far as I can find never. People can play with the Greek language the same as any language can be played with, the best way to find the meaning of any word is to compare it's uses in the same text. So I give this, Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." The same Greek word is used for eternal so the punishment and life must be the same no matter how you translate the word eternal. The same Greek word is used in 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 for evelasting. "And these will pay the penalty of everlasting destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and away from the glory of His power. In the NASB the word eternal is used in place of everlasting to try and keep some consistency in the wording of scripture, I do not see this as important in this case, because both words are completely interchangable.