(August 22, 2011 at 7:49 am)TheAtheistTroll Wrote: There is a distinct lack of cheese-puffs being worshipped in Atheist dogma. That is a problem in my eyes, and it makes about as much sense as most of the other 'problems' presented in here so far.

You say (on your avatar) "There is no god - deal with it".

That outlook may be fine for you, but a lot of people have a big problem with it. And I don't mean only religious folks neither.

In the UK earlier this year there was an advertising campaign run by the Secular Society or Atheist Association or some such, where they paid for a slogan on the sides of buses. The idea I guess was to counter some X-tian propaganda campaign, I think it was probably the "Try praying..." one (there's still a sign around the corner from me - gets right up my nose every time I cycle across the lights up the road).

Anyway, even them, these hard core atheists/humanists/wha'ever couldn't come up with a halfway decent slogan to write, like I'd have said basically what you say on your avatar or somefing, but you know what they came out with? This:

"There's probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

See the pic here

What the f...? IMO that was a pathetic compromise revealing that this committee (clearly it was a committee to have come out with such a wet slogan) did not even have the courage of its own convictions. Pathetic. But ideal for illustrating my point - which is that for loads of folk it just aint as easy as you like to make out.

So ... that's the reality. IMO, as someone who REALLY BELIEVES that god is an illusion and that the world would be a far better place if that was a more generally held view than it is at present, it seems to me that it would be a good idea to help them come to a similar view. IE reality.

OK, I know, you probably disagree. I daresay you think that everyone should be just like you and deal with the bleedin' obvious. But that if you don't mind me saying so is an extremely subjective and blinkered view. For the FACT is whether or not you like it there's loads of stuff done by religious organisations that people depend on, or think they depend on, and just telling them to "deal with it" is not a particularly helpful suggestion.

Now what I'm suggesting is that in order for secularism (or whatever its called) to make any progress then the most essential (ie thought essential by those who use them) of these need to be provided with alternatives. That's it really. I don't see what all the vehemence is about, to me it's another example of the bleedin' obvious. Only apparently not so obvious to a sufficient number of atheists for anything much to be done about it.

Quote:Are there any problems with atheism?

Nope. Atheism is very simple and easy to understand. An Atheist is simply one who lacks belief in a god or gods. That's it. It's got fuck all to do with anything other than that. So I can't see any problems.

Atheism has got nothing to do with: Truth, guidance, propaganda, science, evolution, research, discovery, education, enlightenment, biology or Saerules. Lack of belief in god or gods. That is it. That's all that it is. One who is without belief in god's existence. Can't be any simpler than that.

θεϊστής - One with belief in god.
αθεϊστής - One without belief in god.

(August 22, 2011 at 8:20 am)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:Are there any problems with atheism?

Nope. Atheism is very simple and easy to understand.

Of course it is. For you. For me also. But not for many.

Quote: An Atheist is simply one who lacks belief in a god or gods.

There's a problem, right there. That word "lacks". Many people just can't accept the idea that "lacking" anything can be anything but a loss of some kind. To me, atheism is a form of enlightenment, in fact in relation to religion it could be helpful to view it as the "ultimate enlightenment". A bit like a kid discovering that Santa Claus is really just Dad in a dressing gown.

Quote: That's it. It's got fuck all to do with anything other than that. So I can't see any problems.

So basically everything in the world is hunky-dory then.

Great!

"Of course it is [easy to understand]. For you. For me also. But not for many."

Patently untrue at that last point, and possibly the second by implication.

Quote:Of course it is. For you. For me also. But not for many.

For someone to fail to understand something so simple must have a very simple mind.

Quote:There's a problem, right there. That word "lacks". Many people just can't accept the idea that "lacking" anything can be anything but a loss of some kind.

I lack belief in Santa Claus, can this be also considered as a loss? I lack the ability and mind set to molest children, could that also be considered a loss of some kind? Hardly a loss.
Lacking certain beliefs, point of views and mind sets can be most beneficial.

Quote:So basically everything in the world is hunky-dory then.

Great!

When did I say the world is "hunky-dory"? I said there is no known problem for atheism for which I'm aware of. Atheism is simply one without belief in a god or gods. Failer to understand this, is to have a 5 year olds mind.

(August 22, 2011 at 8:42 am)Epimethean Wrote: "Of course it is [easy to understand]. For you. For me also. But not for many."

Patently untrue at that last point, and possibly the second by implication.

Are you meaning to comment on something posted by me? In that case perhaps you would care to enlighten me as you your reasoning.

(August 22, 2011 at 8:37 am)Godnose Wrote:

(August 22, 2011 at 8:20 am)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:Are there any problems with atheism?

Nope. Atheism is very simple and easy to understand.

Of course it is. For you. For me also. But not for many.

Then they are wrong. That is what Atheism is... If one thinks differently they are wrong.

(August 22, 2011 at 8:43 am)Ace Otana Wrote: When did I say the world is "hunky-dory"? I said there is no known problem for atheism for which I'm aware of. Atheism is simply one without belief in a god or gods. Failer to understand this, is to have a 5 year olds mind.

Look, I absolutely agree with you. There is no such thing as god. It's an illusion, a myth, whatever. I do not have a problem with that. This is not about that.

What I do have a problem with is why so many obviously intelligent and presumably well-intentioned people refuse to accept that simply saying "There is no god" is a wholly insufficient response to the religious mania which has gripped the world for the last X thousand years.

As an atheist I am perpetually horrified by the appalling divisions that are created by the power exercised through religion. It just blows my mind the way religion does so much damage, and I want it to stop. I'm talking about the wars and stuff, as between muslims and xtians and jews etc.

Not to mention the use of creationism and so on to mis-educate kids about evolution, global warming, etc.

So, the thing is to somehow redirect the massive energy of religion which is mis-spent on creating mayhem in the world into a more useful and productive path whereby the people of the world can live together in more harmony than they (we) currently do. And I don't see what atheists are doing about that right now, and it makes me pretty darned angry ... because these are supposed to be the folks who see stuff as it is and not as some daft myth.

That make any sense to you at all?

Quote:What I do have a problem with is why so many obviously intelligent and presumably well-intentioned people refuse to accept that simply saying "There is no god" is a sufficient response to the religious mania which has gripped the world for the last X thousand years.

Sorry to disappoint, but atheism has nothing to do with defeating religion. It's just a point of view. What you're looking for is a secular action or solution to a very religious problem. Secularism is the complete separation of religion from education, politics, ect ect. Atheism is just the response to a religious claim ie: God exists. Atheist "I don't believe that."

Quote:As an atheist I am perpetually horrified by the appalling divisions that are created by the power exercised through religion. It just blows my mind the way that religion does so much damage, and I want it to stop. I'm talking about the wars and stuff, as between muslims and xtians and jews etc.

I hate what religion is doing, I want to take away it's power and influence as well. If you know of a way, please share.

Quote:Not to mention the use of creationism and so on to mis-educate kids about evolution, global warming, etc.

Secularism. The separation of religion from such things as schools. I'm in full support of a secular society. Where religion cannot interfear.

Secularism: The view that religion should not be involved with the ordinary social and political activities of a country.

(August 20, 2011 at 12:09 am)theVOID Wrote:

(August 18, 2011 at 4:48 pm)Rayaan Wrote: There is no evidence that atheism is correct - along with theism - and that's a bit of a problem actually, isn't it?

A problem for you only, burden of proof and all that jazz.

Agreed void. The other problem is that there is plenty of evidence that atheism is correct. Like all evidentiary claims it is not conclusive, but is still more probable than immaterial beings and the supernatural:

- the hiddenness of god and reasonable unbelief
- religious confusion, or the geography of religion
- the inductive problem of evil
- the success of natural science
- the failure of intercessory prayer
- evolution
- cosmic origins and the nature of time
- mind brain connection and the failure of substance dualism

Theism on the either hand has a series of giant arguments from incredulity (design, cosmological arguments), unproven claims around the abstract (TAG and morality), and appeals to the subjective (personal experience and the revelations). None of these are very compelling are they?, especially when they support any or even all religions claims (except for those pertaining to revelation). Even if you could win all these arguments it is then not possible to show they are infact all the same god.

Atheisms problem is that it cannot 100% conclude that every god does not exist but then nothing can from an evidentiary standpoint. Of every well defined god you can submit knowledge of however we could probably get real close to it by examining their logical inconsistencies.