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Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
#61
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
The question:
Why does God appear to know only what the writers of the Bible know?

Hammy asked a similar question in that why does God's only seem to know what the bible writers knew and is there a case where modern science and or society has it wrong?

my answer:
Actually I can think of several, get ready to eat some crow.. speaking of crow let's start dietary laws in the OT that proved to be better for us than what we ultimately compiled/recognized as the food pyramid. In fact the OT jew would be eating more of a 'paleo' diet while through out the 50 60 70 and 80 were we told to eat a carb, based diet. (being the bottom step of the pyramid) that was a big scientific fail that has come back to the bible.

another big thing was the bible pioneered the idea that everyone was equal before God and as a christian we were to treat even slaves as brothers and sisters.. this was NOT how the world work/works now, aside from a few who truly take this to heart. even up to the 50 and 60 the idea that hitler made popular in the 40's was the idea of some races being superior to others through breeding/evolution. that's a big time 'science' got it wrong.

Another OT example was written in law to quarantine the sick or infected. this was contrary to the way lived up until the late 1700's and even then gathering to help the sick was a practice that help spread disease up into the 19th century.

Got a few more if you need them.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is good.
That doesn't mean question just the questionable, it also means that we should question the foundational. If you have a biblically based question you'd rather not openly discuss i am happy to receive any PM's Semi-discreetly, or Email [email protected]

A/S/K= ask, seek, knock. As outlined in luke 11:5-13

Semi-discreetly= will never share details openly with anyone, but may remind you that I am not speaking out of a vaccum but rather that you may have shared some personal info with me 8+ years ago Dodgy 
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#62
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
Our next question comes from Kit:

What if god never existed at all and early man concocted him from the imagination for the sake of comfort during a time of overwhelming uncertainty?

Of course, you have obviously concluded something to the contrary of this. But doesn't this seem like a real possibility?

******
Answer question phase begins Tuesday 5/22... final remarks by Friday 5/25.
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#63
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
How am I suppose to answer a question that I know is impossible, I know for fact, without doubt, with knowledge that God exists, that He is real and who He says He is. To betray my own knowledge of the creator and savior of man is as foolish as a Christian can get. We are not here to speculate what if's. This is a game the atheist want to play to make themselves feel better about their personal situation with God. I suggest that those who are struggling with this should seek out God and allow Him to remedy their situation. I would like to know something why do the atheist here want to play games on an issue as serious as this, I know you say you do not believe in God, but for a people who claim this you sure have a lot of questions about Him.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#64
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
(May 21, 2018 at 11:13 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: What if god never existed...

Then everyone alive now, in the past or in the future will die hopeless meaningless deaths.
"Anyone who believes the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. I live on the twenty-first floor." - Alan Sokal
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#65
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
(May 21, 2018 at 11:13 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Our next question comes from Kit:

What if god never existed at all and early man concocted him from the imagination for the sake of comfort during a time of overwhelming uncertainty?

I'm going to narrow it to the Christian God.

So then it would be the case that:

1. The 40 or so authors of the Bible lied for reasons that are not only unclear, but incomprehensible
2. Jesus' take on the true nature of humanity was a lucky guess
3. Billions of people have lied (sometimes for their entire lifetime) about some relationship with God and the effects it has on them.
4. Billions of people have falsely bought what other have told them is true and what they themselves have intuitively believed to be true. 
5. Million (if not billions) of supernatural-->physical events previously ascribed to God because of the context were just lucky deterministic coincidences that just so happened to perpetuate the "concocted...imagination"
6. Life has no ultimate meaning, purpose, or value. 
7. I don't think there is a good grounds for libertarian free fill--despite out intuition. 
8. Our cognitive abilities were developed for survival--not truth. Calls into question...well...everything. 
9. We continue to have big gaping holes in questions like:
  • why anything at all exists
  • the origin of the universe
  • why the universe is fine-tuned for intelligent life
  • what is consciousness
  • abiogenesis 

I want to point out that the theory slipped into the question does not have any evidence to support it. It is pretty much just the entailment of the premise: God does not exist.
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#66
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
My literal experience is a little backwards than most. in that I experienced God and then was exposed to the bible which vetted my experiences.

My experiences with angels... was the show with michael landon in it.. I got a bum who I thought was going to rob me because he was huge and came out of nowhere. Then we I found this passage in hebrews:
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Years after the fact.. when I came across this brought me to my knees.

When I got to visit Hell my only experience was dante's inferno or rather the simpsons version of it. Hell was a pit Hell fire had nothing to do with the chemical process we named fire. Hell fire is simply the consumption of the spirit by this absence of creation, it creates the same guttural instinctive reaction as if one were on fire, if one were to be consumed by fire.. my being was burned up my soul my consciousness was so tormented I the part that is me was consumed or just befor it was I was pulled out. I also got the feeling the long it takes for us to exalt God and repent in Hell the longer this experience will last.

Then over the years I started to study my bible and even Hell specifically and I wuld find small descriptions here and there all of which pointed to my experience rather than what the church tells us about dante's inferno.

This type of thing has gone on for 20+ years now.

even with your questions I am given an answer then I read and can vet my given answer on page with out any mental gymnastics or pulling verses from 10 different places and putting all of them together. Evolution creationism was a good example of that. I had a complete answer in like 15 mins and it has changed very little since my first putting pen to page..

So then I ask how can old men who lived so long ago predict what I experience and then write it all down so that I may verify thousands of years later?

It's been said billions would have to have all lied I say trillions would have to all be liars, in the things they saw and witnessed for themselves. to the point of martyrdom. Not I'm going to kill myself and take you with me BS, But I will stand here for the sake of what I KNOW it beyond truth while you light me on fire, nail me upside down on a cross feed me to the lions shoot me and my family.. People despite what you think are not stupid. if there were doubt people would not endure, and for that fact many don't endure, but on the other hand millions do. Why? because like me they have seen the face of Christ (maybe not as I in judgement) but the Holy Spirit which is promised to all of us. meaning all of us have the ability to have a prophet level relationship with God. Meaning you talk to God... God answers you.

That is why this religion has lasted over the years despite who is incharge of the world. You just have to have the correct picture of God you have to build your faith/works/house on the real bible based God. Not some hokey religion with grandpa deitys who grant wishes for good deeds who judges everyone by 'morality.'

You ask would it not be more plausible for a bunch of old men to just have written all of this down.. that has happened several times in our religious past. Islam scientology and mormonism are good examples. all of which put many many layers between God and the people meaning unless your special God does not talk with you.

Now contrast that with the Promise by Jesus Himself to give us the gift of the Holy Spirit rather to make each of us a prophet to put each one of us in contact with God. Now how can a religion afford to do that and not have it pay out over a 2000 year period enough times to keep it all going?

When man makes religion he hides God and grants only a few access to keep continuity stable.

Here We all have equal access and still tell the same story we all have the same account of the gospel. now granted some of us want music with our gospel and other do not while other still want to serve grape juice while other want wine... all point of meaningless bickering and nothing more as all knees in this religion all head bow and declare Christ our lord despite how much we think our members should put in the plate or whether the bread should come first or the money to see which bread and wine to put out.

Millions/billions of indivisuals each with a unique perspective can come to God in about 25K different ways and still sing and praise one God.

Bet thor could have that happen... ISlam the next biggest man made mess in line does not have that happen. ask the Sunni who the Shea worship and vice versa.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is good.
That doesn't mean question just the questionable, it also means that we should question the foundational. If you have a biblically based question you'd rather not openly discuss i am happy to receive any PM's Semi-discreetly, or Email [email protected]

A/S/K= ask, seek, knock. As outlined in luke 11:5-13

Semi-discreetly= will never share details openly with anyone, but may remind you that I am not speaking out of a vaccum but rather that you may have shared some personal info with me 8+ years ago Dodgy 
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#67
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
(May 21, 2018 at 11:13 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Our next question comes from Kit:

What if god never existed at all and early man concocted him from the imagination for the sake of comfort during a time of overwhelming uncertainty?

Of course, you have obviously concluded something to the contrary of this. But doesn't this seem like a real possibility?

******
Answer question phase begins Tuesday 5/22... final remarks by Friday 5/25.

It is definitely a real life possibility. However, based on my observations and based on what I know and what makes logical sense to me, I have concluded that there is a stronger real life possibility that God does exist. Faith and hope fill in the rest to make my beliefs as strong as they are.

This is always an ongoing thing, though. If somehow the truth guided me the opposite direction, I would certainly reevaluate my current beliefs.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#68
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
(May 22, 2018 at 10:47 am)GC quotes Neo-Scholastic Wrote: "Then everyone alive now, in the past or in the future will die hopeless meaningless deaths."

Good call Neo straight from the mouth of Paul.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#69
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
Our fourth question comes from Jörmungandr:

Do you feel that by associating with atheists on an atheist site you are not putting Christ first in your lives?

Since debate activity is lower than it was, I say we only spend three days on this question (rather than four). That means answers to the question are submitted on Saturday 5/26, responses/rebuttals on Sunday 5/27 and final comments on Monday 5/28. Further discussion of questions can happen in the parallel thread if you wish.
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#70
RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
I don't see why talking to people who are atheist would have anything to do with where I'm putting God in my life. So the answer is a simple no, I do not feel that way at all. It's not a sin to talk to people who have different opinions from myself, so there's no reason why I should feel that way.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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