Unfortunately 13 lost their lives when a duck boat sank.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/20/us/branso...index.html

This is the same mentality that lead to the coal mine explosion. The Takata air bags, and even financially, Wells Fargo, and coal ash and Genex in our water supply. 

Far too much the manager, or the mere worker get blamed and the CEOs get a slap on the wrist. 

This is what deregulation looks like. The owner of that company should be in prison.

^


So in a regulated world this sort of things never happen?

(July 20, 2018 at 11:22 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: So in a regulated world this sort of things never happen?

Not the point, over 36 years the power is lopsided now.  Regulations are not bans on the private sector. I am so fucking sick of the charge that regulations always hurt business. Regulations are why we have traffic lights too. If we left it up to the GOP and never challenged business we'd be a third world country.

Nothing in the article indicates whether or how much duck boats are regulated. In any case, I'm unsure what good regulation would do in the event of a storm '...that came out of nowhere.'

Boru

(July 20, 2018 at 11:25 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 20, 2018 at 11:22 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: So in a regulated world this sort of things never happen?

Not the point, over 36 years the power is lopsided now.  Regulations are not bans on the private sector. I am so fucking sick of the charge that regulations always hurt business. Regulations are why we have traffic lights too. If we left it up to the GOP and never challenged business we'd be a third world country.

So you will opportunistically trod any disaster underfoot as a soap box from atop which you would advocate your political view, regardless of whether your view could even in theory have prevented or mitigated the disaster.

You come across very much like the religious fanatic to whom anything is evidence of his god.  To you it seems any disaster is basis to shriek your view is right.

Quote:The Takata air bags, and even financially, Wells Fargo, and coal ash and Genex in our water supply.

These are not storm related.  They, and many others, are the direct result of policy decisions by republicunt cocksuckers who will gladly poison anyone in their pursuit of corporate profits.

(July 20, 2018 at 11:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Nothing in the article indicates whether or how much duck boats are regulated. In any case, I'm unsure what good regulation would do in the event of a storm '...that came out of nowhere.'

Boru

No, but the climate of "rush" and the long term sale of "less rules" allows a boss to push for the buck then blame the employee.

Even in the restaurant business I have worked at a corporate chain, and mom and pop chain. I cannot tell you the countless times where a boss pushed you to get things done, to the point you did not have the time or materials to get it done, then fucking bitch when you don't pass a health inspection. I should clarify, pass to my bosses was always nothing less than an "A". I never worked at a place that got lower than a "B".  But my point is, if you want an "A" which I want too, then fucking give me the time and don't fucking make me multitask.

That is not my experience with one event, but YEARS. I am 51 and I can tell you, while not every business is evil, the mindset of do the most with the least isn't always good. 

I would bet my life that the captain was pushed to go out despite the weather conditions, not because he wanted to, but because he had to eat. Just like the West Virginia coal mine asshole who ran for congress was never charged for the explosion. Just like the Wells Fargo CEO spent no time for the financial damage he caused.

It is FUCKING BULLSHIT to set up optimum protocol then expect the same results when conditions are not optimum. We never would have gotten to the moon if we said "always rush and ignore redundancy".

(July 20, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 20, 2018 at 11:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Nothing in the article indicates whether or how much duck boats are regulated. In any case, I'm unsure what good regulation would do in the event of a storm '...that came out of nowhere.'

Boru

No, but the climate of "rush" and the long term sale of "less rules" allows a boss to push for the buck then blame the employee.

Even in the restaurant business I have worked at a corporate chain, and mom and pop chain. I cannot tell you the countless times where a boss pushed you to get things done, to the point you did not have the time or materials to get it done, then fucking bitch when you don't pass a health inspection. I should clarify, pass to my bosses was always nothing less than an "A". I never worked at a place that got lower than a "B".  But my point is, if you want an "A" which I want too, then fucking give me the time and don't fucking make me multitask.

That is not my experience with one event, but YEARS. I am 51 and I can tell you, while not every business is evil, the mindset of do the most with the least isn't always good. 

I would bet my life that the captain was pushed to go out despite the weather conditions, not because he wanted to, but because he had to eat. Just like the West Virginia coal mine asshole who ran for congress was never charged for the explosion. Just like the Wells Fargo CEO spent no time for the financial damage he caused.

It is FUCKING BULLSHIT to set up optimum protocol then expect the same results when conditions are not optimum. We never would have gotten to the moon if we said "always rush and ignore redundancy".

But the point is that you know nothing at all about the duck boat tragedy, which makes this a really stupid hook on which to hang your hat.

As for the boat captain being 'pushed to go out despite the weather conditions', you should read the article you linked - there wasn't a weather concern when the boats went out.

Boru

JFC Brian, again, really? Way to play "Jump To Conclusions".

(July 20, 2018 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 20, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No, but the climate of "rush" and the long term sale of "less rules" allows a boss to push for the buck then blame the employee.

Even in the restaurant business I have worked at a corporate chain, and mom and pop chain. I cannot tell you the countless times where a boss pushed you to get things done, to the point you did not have the time or materials to get it done, then fucking bitch when you don't pass a health inspection. I should clarify, pass to my bosses was always nothing less than an "A". I never worked at a place that got lower than a "B".  But my point is, if you want an "A" which I want too, then fucking give me the time and don't fucking make me multitask.

That is not my experience with one event, but YEARS. I am 51 and I can tell you, while not every business is evil, the mindset of do the most with the least isn't always good. 

I would bet my life that the captain was pushed to go out despite the weather conditions, not because he wanted to, but because he had to eat. Just like the West Virginia coal mine asshole who ran for congress was never charged for the explosion. Just like the Wells Fargo CEO spent no time for the financial damage he caused.

It is FUCKING BULLSHIT to set up optimum protocol then expect the same results when conditions are not optimum. We never would have gotten to the moon if we said "always rush and ignore redundancy".

But the point is that you know nothing at all about the duck boat tragedy, which makes this a really stupid hook on which to hang your hat.

As for the boat captain being 'pushed to go out despite the weather conditions', you should read the article you linked - there wasn't a weather concern when the boats went out.

Boru

Holy fucking shit. This is why bigoted white people, NOT YOU, but why the far right cannot understand why blacks complain about the inequity of justice and economics.

In this case my fucking point IS LONG TERM, in that IT IS NOT ALWAYS GOOD TO RUSH AND MULTI TASK.

PLEASE tell me, how a boat captain who has dozens of lives in his hands goes out WITHOUT and or ignoring FUCKING WEATHER REPORTS which are easily looked at IN THE FUCKING MORNING any given day?

For the same GOD DAMNED FUCKING REASON I have bitched at my managers about not having enough dishes, or or paper towels or toilet paper. The owner's mentality is "JUST FUCKING DO IT".

If you have to feed yourself and you have a jackass boss more focused on profits than safety and you need to eat, YOU ARE GOING TO FUCKING TAKE THAT RISK.

This bullshit, "how do you know in this particular case" is a FUCKING DODGE. 

Climate matters long term, not just in regulations but also race relations.

Just like race, in business, there is a toxic IGNORANCE of long term climate.

I have worked for a JACKASS GREEDY NATIONAL PIZZA chain, that constantly trained it's managers to push the drivers to take risks to the point of accidents only to blame the driver and make their insurance pay the damages, then fire them. The real fucking reason is that that bullshit business model assumes optimum profits even when they don't have optimum staff to meet demand. That puts the driver in the position of risking their safety in less than good weather conditions, and even in good weather conditions, if you don't have enough staff, you have to rush doubling up on orders as an individual driver.

AGAIN, NASA would not have been as successful if it had a greedy model.  SOMETIMES YOU FUCKING HAVE TO SLOW DOWN  AND PROVIDE Y0UR STAFF THE FUCKING ABILITY TO DO IT RIGHT WITHOUT RUSHING.