So, since I've started this job, this is something that I've wondered about.

I've been working in health insurance, doing pre-authorizatios; I get a lot of calls, setting up preauth for chiropractic care.  I had previously thought chiropractic care was all bunk.  Admittedly, some of it IS ridiculous and goes heavily into 'woo' territory.  But some of it seems to help.  And we usually seem to be able to cover that (or, at least, apply it to a deductable).  

But once in a while, I get a member calling about accupuncture.  Well, it's my job so I put in the preauthorization request for them and I've seen previous preauthorizations for accupuncture actually get approved.  This surprises me because I see a lot of treatments getting denied because they're "not medically necessary."  Based on what I've seen of it, I can't imagine accupuncture being medically necessary and this specific treatments effectiveness relies entirely on the placebo effect; giving them a sugar pill would do just as much good.  Does anyone know anything about this?

(July 29, 2018 at 6:04 am)TaraJo Wrote: So, since I've started this job, this is something that I've wondered about.

I've been working in health insurance, doing pre-authorizatios; I get a lot of calls, setting up preauth for chiropractic care.  I had previously thought chiropractic care was all bunk.  Admittedly, some of it IS ridiculous and goes heavily into 'woo' territory.  But some of it seems to help.  And we usually seem to be able to cover that (or, at least, apply it to a deductable).  

But once in a while, I get a member calling about accupuncture.  Well, it's my job so I put in the preauthorization request for them and I've seen previous preauthorizations for accupuncture actually get approved.  This surprises me because I see a lot of treatments getting denied because they're "not medically necessary."  Based on what I've seen of it, I can't imagine accupuncture being medically necessary and this specific treatments effectiveness relies entirely on the placebo effect; giving them a sugar pill would do just as much good.  Does anyone know anything about this?

It works as well as any placebo.

I saw an FB article a while back about how acupuncture was scientifically proven to be non-effective, but I'm not going to try to find it. It's lost in the interwebs now.

Well, I'm legitimately afraid of quacks poking me with needles for no good reason.

Boru

(July 29, 2018 at 6:15 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, I'm legitimately afraid of quacks poking me with needles for no good reason.

Boru

Some people seem very eager for it.  Which strikes me as weird.  I mean, I still have to get frequent blood testing done and, yeah, it's no fun.  But I know there's a legitimate reason those tests are being done.  I even know some of the details on how some of the tests work.  And I understand the value of what can be learned from those tests.  Accupuncture doesn't have that luxury for me.  I don't mind a bit of discomfort for a treatment as long as it has effective results (BELIEVE ME!), but I don't see any results to accupuncture.

Reason does not always enter into the equation of people's decision making.

My impression, not backed by actual knowledge, is that it does have an analgesic effect which, from the way it's talked about, is greater than placebo, but not more effective than numerous non-medical interventions like mild exercise.

Remember that chiro was founded by a guy who thought he had cured a person's deafness by manipulating his neck, which supposedly relieved pressure on the nerves. As the nerves for the ear don't go anywhere near the neck you can see the problem. Acupuncture claims to follow the "natural flow of energy in the human body."

If you do go to one make sure it's not a person who claims chiro will cure all your ills. The "legit" ones claim only that it works on joints and muscles.

Quote: The belief in acupuncture's effectiveness is based on experience and scientific experiments. Millions of people have experienced the beneficial effects of acupuncture and thousands of scientific studies have concluded that acupuncture is effective for such things as the relief of pain, increasing fertility, treating rheumatoid arthritis, and relieving nausea after chemotherapy. Skeptics challenge these studies, but with so much evidence piled up in favor of the effectiveness of acupuncture, one wonders why there are still many people who are skeptical of the practice. If the evidence from millions of personal testimonies and from thousands of scientific studies doesn't convince the skeptics, what will?

It may seem obvious to acupuncturists and to millions of their patients that the skeptics are mad, daft, or just being obstinate. To them, it is obvious that acupuncture works and anyone who denies this must have some sort of mental defect. Is it possible that millions of people could be wrong? Well, yes, it is possible for millions of people to be wrong, but I must state up front that those skeptics who say that acupuncture doesn't work, or that it is not an effective medical treatment for some ailments, are wrong. The evidence from both personal testimony and from scientific studies clearly shows that acupuncture works and is an effective medical treatment for many ailments. The evidence from the scientific studies also shows clearly that sham acupuncture is just as effective as true acupuncture. What is not so clear to some people, but is easily ferreted out from the evidence, is that acupuncture most likely works by classical conditioning and other factors that are often lumped together and referred to as "the placebo effect." Furthermore, in some cases sham acupuncture works better than other placebos. This does not mean that acupuncture is "all in the head," however.

A common misunderstanding regarding placebos is that a placebo must be an inert substance that tricks the patient into thinking he's been given an active substance. This misunderstanding leads to the belief that the placebo effect is "all in the head." That is no more true than that people's physiological responses to what they think is alcohol or a drug are purely psychological. People can be conditioned to have physiological responses to placebos. Furthermore, Martina Amanzio et al. (2001) demonstrated that "at least part of the physiological basis for the placebo effect is opioid in nature" (Bausell 2007: 160). That is, we can be conditioned to release such chemical substances as endorphins, catecholamines, cortisol, and adrenaline. One reason, therefore, that people report pain relief from both acupuncture and sham acupuncture may be that both stimulate the opioid system. So can a lot of other things of course, like running a marathon, having an orgasm, eating habanero chiles, or getting a saline injection that you think is morphine.

Skeptic's Dictionary || Acupuncture

Google sham acupuncture. You can decide for yourself.

Jor is the best ninja.