Well, that's incorrect. Human legal principles have involved animal cruelty for longer than either of us have been alive.

Ideally, I don't think cats should be declawed. If you can't deal with your possessions being potentially scratched up by a feisty feline, maybe you just shouldn't own a cat. My cat has had both her front and back paws declawed (by previous owners long, long ago) and I hate watching her try to scratch herself and always give her a helping hand when I see her try. Funny part is her leg starts kicking like she's a dog if I start scratching in the right spot lol she's silly

Well let's see. The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed. Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time. (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all. So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting. One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

(July 28, 2019 at 9:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: Well let's see.  The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed.  Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.  

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time.  (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all.  So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting.  One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

This is why I tend to say that, ideally, cats shouldn't be clawed, though I don't necessarily agree with the practice being outlawed. Of course, in a perfect world, we wouldn't have to employ any of these barbaric practices to enjoy owning pets. But, in the real world, not opting to have your cat declawed or your dog neutered can raise some considerable issues for pet owners. And, being that it is MY pet, I feel I should be able to choose whether or not I want my cat declawed. That being said, I probably will not own another cat after my current one passes (she was inherited so to speak so I stepped up to take care of her and love her to bits).

Sorry, even though I don't like declawing I'm not going to take a position. We do a lot worse to many many animals. I'm not going to be that hypocrite.

(July 28, 2019 at 9:59 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(July 28, 2019 at 9:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: Well let's see.  The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed.  Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.  

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time.  (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all.  So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting.  One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

This is why I tend to say that, ideally, cats shouldn't be clawed, though I don't necessarily agree with the practice being outlawed. Of course, in a perfect world, we wouldn't have to employ any of these barbaric practices to enjoy owning pets. But, in the real world, not opting to have your cat declawed or your dog neutered can raise some considerable issues for pet owners. And, being that it is MY pet, I feel I should be able to choose whether or not I want my cat declawed. That being said, I probably will not own another cat after my current one passes (she was inherited so to speak so I stepped up to take care of her and love her to bits).

Comparing declawing a cat to having a pet neutered isn't a reasonable comparison.

Having a dog neutered can prevent testicular cancer just as spaying a bitch can prevent breast cancer - which is nearly always fatal.  

Declawing a cat is not a matter of maintaining the health of the cat.

(July 28, 2019 at 10:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Comparing declawing a cat to having a pet neutered isn't a reasonable comparison.

Having a dog neutered can prevent testicular cancer just as spaying a bitch can prevent breast cancer - which is nearly always fatal.  

Declawing a cat is not a matter of maintaining the health of the cat.

And yet, I never claimed that declawing was a matter of maintaining the health of the cat, did I?

I was making the comparison from a standpoint of making life easier for the owner. Most people get their cats neutered/spayed because they:

-don't feel like dealing with a female cat that's in heat
-know male cats who are neutered a more likely to be well-behaved
-know male cats are less likely to roam away from the household (in search of a female partner)
-don't feel like dealing with an unplanned litter of kittens that they may very well have to give away and/or won't realistically be able to care for

People tend to declaw their cats because they don't want their shit torn to hell. Being someone that doesn't necessarily want to do that to an animal, I would simply opt to not own another pet after my current one passes, as much as I love her and all animals in general.

People do these things for their own convenience. If there are health benefits involved, then great. In the case of declawing, it saves cat owners years of headaches and possible hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in damage to furniture and household fixtures. That being said, my mother had a cat whose declawing job must've been botched because I remember her being fucked up from it for way too long afterward. I was young and don't remember much, but I remember her seeming to be in a lot of pain and she quickly turned into an angry, ornery cat after that. I, personally, wouldn't want to do that to an animal. I also don't want my things torn up. Hence, I don't plan to have another cat.

Simple. Easy to understand. Not sure why you're looking for an argument where there isn't one. Never said declawing had health benefits.

edit:

Also, if someone having their cat declawed prevents them from abandoning a potentially behaviorally problematic kitty, I'm all for it. I'd rather see a cat declawed and an owner be left to deal with it's behavioral issues than to see a cat abandoned or given away time and time again because it scratches at everyone or destroys furniture constantly. Cats have been put down for shit like that so I'd rather see a cat declawed if it's going to cause that many problems for its owner. There are pros and cons to it, as I understand it.

(July 28, 2019 at 9:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: Well let's see.  The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed.  Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.  

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time.  (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all.  So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting.  One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

Boofuckinghoo. No one cares about furniture vs. cutting the tips of cats fingers off. That's not an important trade off.

(July 28, 2019 at 11:05 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(July 28, 2019 at 9:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: Well let's see.  The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed.  Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.  

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time.  (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all.  So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting.  One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

Boofuckinghoo. No one cares about furniture vs. cutting the tips of cats fingers off.

Tell that to the cats who have been abandoned by ignorant owners and/or put down because they didn't know how to deal with the cats behavioral issues.

I'd rather see a cat declawed then thrown on the side of the road or given away by owner after owner because it's a bit unruly. Would I do it? No. But that's why I don't plan on having pets.

(July 28, 2019 at 10:18 pm)wyzas Wrote: Sorry, even though I don't like declawing I'm not going to take a position. We do a lot worse to many many animals. I'm not going to be that hypocrite.

It's not either or. Every step toward being better as people is surely good, right?