The universal and indispensable foundation of theism is the refusal to accept reality as deduced from a sound and validatable process and determination to assert something else in its place that feels more comfortable.    The theist in most cases could not very well admit what is comfortable has no valid reason to be thought of as being true, because doing so would destroy his ability to derive comfort from the comfortable.    If comfort is that important, and one has already crossed the cognitive Rubicon to embrace what provides comfort in place of what is more probably true,  then there is relatively unlikely to be any other serious cognitive barrier against embracing whatever more wish thinking intellectual self-deception is required to defend the intellectually indefensible.

Hence, in many if not most cases, the Christian claiming not to be a fundamentalist is already in for the penny, and has torn out any innate intellectual safeguards against also being in for the pound.

(September 3, 2019 at 9:40 am)Fierce Wrote:

(September 3, 2019 at 9:23 am)Acrobat Wrote: So not based on how religion developed, and came about, or the nature of religious beliefs.

So I take it when you accuse others like myself, of a holding a beliefs that imaginary you have no evidence to support this.

Religion developed in the mind of man, came about by needing the question of his origin answered, and ever since the nature of those imaginative beliefs has been worshiped by the ignorant masses seeking their opiates.

The answers I provided are anthropologically sound and can be discovered by learning the history of religion.

When I encounter a theist, I understand that s/he prefers the delusion that religious faith provides.

So your belief that God doesn’t exist, is imaginary, isn’t based on no evidence, but the sort evidence/support you indicated above.

In fact their all sorts of positive claims like I prefer delusions over truth, the origins and nature of religious beliefs, etc...

In my view atheists like yourself believe things like this, because the sort of validation it provides, very few atheists ever seem willing to even explore these conclusions, whether they’re actually true or not. Whether they posses some clarity in perspective that I lack.

It also seems strange to say that im delusional, rather than just mistaken. So if be curious what distinguishes it? I mean is it delusional to believe that reality posses intrinsic purpose?

That something, god, whose existence is asserted without creditable evidence does not need to be credited with possibility of existence worthy of note.   It is a dismissal of a positive claim that provides no evidence.      The assertion "the non-existence of that for which no creditable evidence can be produced is typically vastly more probable than its existence" is perhaps the single most powerfully effective heuristic possible in truth telling, certainly more powerful than "but jesus gives me meaning" by an almost inconceivably large magnitude. 

Regarding your desire to "explore these conclusions",    Our understanding of quantum mechanics and cosmology tells us the number of possible things is truly stupendously enormous Google or googleplex may not be exaggeration.   But because a google plex is by no means anywhere close infinity, don't let your self think that means arbitrary bullshit fantasy, as in assertions without meaningful evidence, has any meaningful probability of being true.    The number of possible bullshit is literally infinite.    No amount of stupendously enormous can constitute a fraction of infinitely that is meaningfully different from zero.    So If one is to explore every possible figment of imagination for which there is no creditable evidence, one would spend all eternity, rigorously deduce and examine each and every single one of the googleplex of possible things, and still have in probability made precisely zero progress, and be exactly where one has imagined himself to have begun.

I think even you must have an intuitive grasp of the above.

But your special pledging centers around your fantasy having fucked his own mother to give himself birth in order to get himself nailed to a cross for your benefit, and thereby made you feel your otherwise worthless self and meaningless life is worth some thing to someone fantastic and providing your life meaning in sucking up to him.   So because you think your fantasy is so, uhm, elevating,  it deserves special exemption from the fate normally rightfully given to all ordinary unsupported fantasies.

Please, be less stupid.

(September 3, 2019 at 3:23 am)Belaqua Wrote: さよなら

Does this thread actually have a point? What is it you're trying to prove to the rest of us? The Bible is supposed to be interpreted dynamically, including both literal and metaphorical interpretations...? And so what? What of it? What exactly is your point here?

So far, which is business as usual for you, you've blown a lot of hot air without actually saying anything.

Are you making an actual claim, statement or point? Or are you just here to prove to everyone how much you know about interpreting the Bible? Which is, by the way, a completely useless skill in 2019, unless you plan on using it to get paid. Otherwise it is just for some sense of ego gratification.

(September 3, 2019 at 4:41 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(September 3, 2019 at 3:23 am)Belaqua Wrote: さよなら

Does this thread actually have a point? What is it you're trying to prove to the rest of us? The Bible is supposed to be interpreted dynamically, including both literal and metaphorical interpretations...? And so what? What of it? What exactly is your point here?

So far, which is business as usual for you, you've blown a lot of hot air without actually saying anything.

Are you making an actual claim, statement or point? Or are you just here to prove to everyone how much you know about interpreting the Bible? Which is, by the way, a completely useless skill in 2019, unless you plan on using it to get paid. Otherwise it is just for some sense of ego gratification.

He has condescended to let you know he thinks he knows something you don't, he thinks that is as a good as an affected aristocratic voice booming down from on high telling you to  submit to his superior wisdom and understanding regarding something barely related at all.

(September 3, 2019 at 3:22 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: That something, god, whose existence is asserted without creditable evidence does not need to be credited with possibility of existence worthy of note.   It is a dismissal of a positive claim that provides no evidence.      The assertion "the non-existence of that for which no creditable evidence can be produced is typically vastly more probable than its existence" is perhaps the single most powerfully effective heuristic possible in truth telling, certainly more powerful than "but jesus gives me meaning" by an almost inconceivably large magnitude. 

Regarding your desire to "explore these conclusions",    Our understanding of quantum mechanics and cosmology tells us the number of possible things is truly stupendously enormous Google or googleplex may not be exaggeration.   But because a google plex is by no means anywhere close infinity, don't let your self think that means arbitrary bullshit fantasy, as in assertions without meaningful evidence, has any meaningful probability of being true.    The number of possible bullshit is literally infinite.    No amount of stupendously enormous can constitute a fraction of infinitely that is meaningfully different from zero.    So If one is to explore every possible figment of imagination for which there is no creditable evidence, one would spend all eternity, rigorously deduce and examine each and every single one of the googleplex of possible things, and still have in probability made precisely zero progress, and be exactly where one has imagined himself to have begun.

I think even you must have an intuitive grasp of the above.

But your special pledging centers around your fantasy having fucked his own mother to give himself birth in order to get himself nailed to a cross for your benefit, and thereby made you feel your otherwise worthless self and meaningless life is worth some thing to someone fantastic and providing your life meaning in sucking up to him.   So because you think your fantasy is so, uhm, elevating,  it deserves special exemption from the fate normally rightfully given to all ordinary unsupported fantasies.

Please, be less stupid.

Religion is perhaps one of those prevalent features of humanity, understanding of it, even from a naturalistic perspective, offers far greater perspective on our share humanity, what it means to be human, as well as our sense of self, than much of anything else.

A cheap reflection of its nature, probably explains why many atheists seem to operate on a false sense of humanity, and others. Why it appeals so much to folks who lack any community or friendship, or meaningful relationships, than others.

Our secular humanity is what connects us, while religion merely divides.

(September 3, 2019 at 5:20 pm)Acrobat Wrote:

(September 3, 2019 at 3:22 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: That something, god, whose existence is asserted without creditable evidence does not need to be credited with possibility of existence worthy of note.   It is a dismissal of a positive claim that provides no evidence.      The assertion "the non-existence of that for which no creditable evidence can be produced is typically vastly more probable than its existence" is perhaps the single most powerfully effective heuristic possible in truth telling, certainly more powerful than "but jesus gives me meaning" by an almost inconceivably large magnitude. 

Regarding your desire to "explore these conclusions",    Our understanding of quantum mechanics and cosmology tells us the number of possible things is truly stupendously enormous Google or googleplex may not be exaggeration.   But because a google plex is by no means anywhere close infinity, don't let your self think that means arbitrary bullshit fantasy, as in assertions without meaningful evidence, has any meaningful probability of being true.    The number of possible bullshit is literally infinite.    No amount of stupendously enormous can constitute a fraction of infinitely that is meaningfully different from zero.    So If one is to explore every possible figment of imagination for which there is no creditable evidence, one would spend all eternity, rigorously deduce and examine each and every single one of the googleplex of possible things, and still have in probability made precisely zero progress, and be exactly where one has imagined himself to have begun.

I think even you must have an intuitive grasp of the above.

But your special pledging centers around your fantasy having fucked his own mother to give himself birth in order to get himself nailed to a cross for your benefit, and thereby made you feel your otherwise worthless self and meaningless life is worth some thing to someone fantastic and providing your life meaning in sucking up to him.   So because you think your fantasy is so, uhm, elevating,  it deserves special exemption from the fate normally rightfully given to all ordinary unsupported fantasies.

Please, be less stupid.

Religion is perhaps one of those prevalent features of humanity, understanding of it, even from a naturalistic perspective, offers far greater perspective on our share humanity, what it means to be human, as well as our sense of self, than much of anything else.

A cheap reflection of its nature, probably explains why many atheists seem to operate on a false sense of humanity, and others. Why it appeals so much to folks who lack any community or friendship, or meaningful relationships, than others.

False sense of humanity?  Needing a god who fucked his own mother to give himself birth to have meaning in life is a truer sense of humanity?


I suppose the slave contented with the fellowship of the slave quarters and have no aspiration of ever being free might deem those who overtly embrace the potential afforded by self determination inhuman,  even though his slave master to whom he truckles so obsequiously lords it over him by realizing those very same potentials at his expense.

(September 3, 2019 at 5:07 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: He has condescended to let you know he thinks he knows something you don't, so he thinks that is as a good as an affected aristocratic voice boomed down down from on high telling you to  submit to his superior wisdom and understanding regarding something barely related at all.

@Belaqua seems to be very good at empty posturing. No surprise there.

(September 3, 2019 at 12:51 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The universal and indispensable foundation of theism is the refusal to accept reality as deduced from a sound and validatable process and determination to assert something else in its place that feels more comfortable.    The theist in most cases could not very well admit what is comfortable has no valid reason to be thought of as being true, because doing so would destroy his ability to derive comfort from the comfortable.    If comfort is that important, and one has already crossed the cognitive Rubicon to embrace what provides comfort in place of what is more probably true,  then there is relatively unlikely to be any other serious cognitive barrier against embracing whatever more wish thinking intellectual self-deception is required to defend the intellectually indefensible.

Hence, in many if not most cases, the Christian claiming not to be a fundamentalist is already in for the penny, and has torn out any innate intellectual safeguards against also being in for the pound.

I personally have no problem with anyone adopting a position because it's comforting for them, but as soon as one comes here to defend such position and in such a confident manner, then they're acting like it's intellectual and it's understandable to expect them to back up their position with something concrete rather than arguing from ignorance or appealing to their personal intuitions ... or adopting naive and clearly false understanding of cognitive/developmental social/psychological phenomena ...