(December 13, 2019 at 6:23 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: If you would listen to Tour, in about 23 minutes he dispells the notion that time can create life and runs ramshod over Jack Szostaks abiogenesis theory. This has ZERO to do w his religious beliefs as he takes care not to even mention his faith but let’s his amazing intellect & chemical bank of knowledge promulgate the facts before your very ears.

I say again

I'm not discounting him because he is speaking from a position 'Outside his wheel-house'.

I am discounting him because he is wrong...

W͔̖̠̺ơụ̶̞̩̼̙̲̰l̻d̰͉ ̜̫̩͖̦̣̻y̩o̭̩̲̯͡ͅu̵ ̪̝͉͜ͅli̠̘̫̹ḳ͎̭͍͢e̢͈̟̫͍̗͕̜ ̷͎̗̙̦̹̹̘ṯ͚̖͜ͅo̯̩̕ ̡k̹̫̜͓n̠̥o͏̣͚͓͙w͈̹ ҉̹̝ ͏̲̲̩̺͚ͅ ̘͚̭̫̹ͅ ̡̘̟̻̫̙̰ ̦̣͎̟ ͓͉̯̠̬m̸̖̰̮̬̝ơ̘̟̜ŗ͙̝e̱


Cheers.

Not at work.

(December 13, 2019 at 6:34 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Listen to who?

Anyway, whomever this noperson is, it sounds like a waste of time.  No one thinks that time created life, so a nutball could argue that until they're blue in the face and they'll only be arguing with themselves.

For the third time (I think), either life on this planet came from life - just pushing the question back to whatever other rock life came from to here, or it came from something other than life.  If it's the second one, that's abiogenesis.  Tell me again, is your god a meatsack with a genetic relationship to ourselves......?

No, it's not.  It's a fairy.  Non life.  The rational theory of abiogenesis is that organic chemistry did it.  The supernatural theory of abiogenesis is that a fairy spoke a magic word.  You seem to be stuck, is the sole piece of data you want us to consider in favor of creationism the fact that you find unlikely events just super duper amazing?  Is that the bit that's important to you, that convinces you?

There is an enormous problem here.James Tour is well qualified. Despite that, he is willing to flat out lie for his imagined god. And that is an interesting problem for the theists. 
What god is happy to propagate outright lies? And why should anyone else believe in such a dishonest deity?

If evolution and abiogenesis were found definitively to be wrong this would still not be evidence FOR god or creationism.

Quote:If you would listen to Tour, in about 23 minutes he dispells the notion that time can create life and runs ramshod over Jack Szostaks abiogenesis theory. 

No he doesn't 

Quote:This has ZERO to do w his religious beliefs as he takes care not to even mention his faith

Yes it has everything to do with his faith it's sole reason he lies about the science,And because he doesn't bring it up in lectures does not refute the fact it's his goal . 

Quote:but let’s his amazing intellect & chemical bank of knowledge promulgate the facts before your very ears

Nope only his lies to the uneducated the gullible and the easily impressed

What straw man did James Tour conjure?
Or are you simply creating one yourself by claiming he did?

Does it matter, honestly? If someone could show you exactly how and why any given creationist got significant facts wrong, would you stop believing that god created life, somehow? If it could be conclusively shown that life can arise through natural means will you, then, stop believing that despite this..god created life, somehow?

I assume that the answer to both is an easy no. Your belief in creation is not dependent on your own or anyone else's incredulity in the face of large numbers, or the accuracy of any proposed fact. If this is the case, as it very likely is, then running proposed facts by us is senseless. Example one can be shown to be wrong, and we'll proceed to example two which is shown to be wrong, and...repeat ad infinitum. At no point in this never-ending procession of proposed and discard non-facts will you ever feel that creation isn't the answer....somehow.

Have you given this any consideration?

(December 12, 2019 at 7:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(December 12, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: Shall I post about the basic odds impossibility of getting even just one workable protein?

Should I post the odds of an all powerful deity appearing out of nowhere, creating the universe from nothing, and still being, according to his own holy book, a complete and utter tosser?

But wait, there's more! What are the odds that the all powerful deity would choose to create a universe exactly like this one? The mind boggles.

Quote:What straw man did James Tour conjure?

Lol the fact you can't recognize a straw man ........

Quote:Or are you simply creating one yourself by claiming he did?

Statement above confirmed

I don't know anything about odds, but the strangeness and rarity of life is certainly interesting. We can easily envision a world in which life is constantly and continually emerging naturally out of the environment, much like waves in the sea. Instead, if it ever did arise naturally it only appears to have done so once, however many billions of years ago the standard model suggests, and in only one location in the universe, and then never again.

I emphasize once mostly because evolution always attempts to trace ancestry to a single common ancestor for all life. Rarely do you hear someone suggest multiple lineages emerging from separate origins of life.

(December 12, 2019 at 9:34 pm)Yukon_Jack Wrote: Time is the enemy of abiogenesis.
Listen to James Tour, tell you the impossibility of it all in such academic fashion it’ll make any evolutionist angry.

James M. Tour, a synthetic organic chemist, received his Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from Syracuse University, his Ph.D. in synthetic organic and organometallic chemistry from Purdue University, and postdoctoral training in synthetic organic chemistry at the University of Wisconsin and Stanford University.

How did god create DNA codes?