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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 6:59 pm
Quote:it's like saying the difference between a bath and a shower is the time people spend taking them.
No i's more like saying a longer shower and a shorter shower .
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 6:59 pm
The error of time can be illustrated, perhaps poorly, by taking any two species and asking what distinguishes the two. The difference between a cat and a dog, for example, isn't X number of seconds. Among other things it is the type and number of nucleotides, genes, or chromosomes they have; and how they are phenotypically expressed.
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:00 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 7:10 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Quote:No, Latin didn't turn to French in a day; the length of time, however, is irrelevant when it comes to identifying that transition.
Nope
Quote:If you can provide the specific amount of time (e.g. "2 million years") that is used as a yardstick by "the latest science" to distinguish microevolution from macroevolution, I'll withdraw my argument
Not needed for said distinction
Quote:The error of time can be illustrated, perhaps poorly, by taking any two species and asking what distinguishes the two. The difference between a cat and a dog, for example, isn't X number of seconds.
Another bad analogy
(December 20, 2019 at 6:40 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: You gotta be quick to beat a no lifer like me. 
I'd add to the above...that it takes different amounts of time to bake the same cake based on the altitude of the oven, as well. The underlying assumption required to ask the initial question is positively absurd. May as well ask how long it takes a teenager girl to get ready for a date.
-and yet, still, the only thing separating micro and macro evolution is time. At the end of the day, or a very long series of them, speciation is inevitable. Copying errors alone will eventually produce reproductive incompatibility. This is drift, in a nutshell. We're not sure that drift amounts to much in the face of other speciation pressures, but even if every other pressure was Wrong and Ungood™...there would still be drift. The items contained under the header of Modern Synth are so individually strong that toppling one or more of them would not meaningfully change our picture of how biology operates.
Or, you know, the meatfairy did it. Played in the dirt, muttered a cantrip...did cpr to a golem. 50/50 His answer is hilarious
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 7:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, a bad anaology on multiple counts. Cats and dogs are, in point of fact, seperated by x number of evolutionary seconds.
The lca between cats and dogs is held to be a member of Miacis, they blipped out in the Eocene, but if our creationist friend wants to do the math to see how many seconds it's been since then, he is certainly welcome to do so. We have a rough estimate for the amount of evolutionary time since the split, but I'm guessing that if someone can't give him a day of the week and minute of the day, he's going to wander off certain that he's pwned biology yet again.
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:19 pm
A typical creationist who almost says ‘were you there’ and wants an accounting down to the second for a process so remote.
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:27 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 7:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It's all pointless theater anyway. Creationists don't actually believe in creationism. It's a performance. You can determine this by the contents of their medicine cabinets, and their complete refusal to affirm that they don't believe in paternity tests. They believe in biology, they just think that creationism is worth brownie points with the big man, and they round off whatever they have to in order to simultanerously maintain whatever contradictory bits of art they must.
They believe in biology so much, in fact, that they feel compelled to make their god into a meatfairy - rather than making life into a product of god's magic. DNA is the amazing proof, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:33 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 7:36 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(December 20, 2019 at 6:14 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: There is no specific amount of time, because speciatation does not operate on uniform timetables. This is due to a range of factors, not the least of which being the reproductive cycle of any given species-come-genus, or...if we prefer, clade. Macroevolution can (and does) occur faster for flies than primates. They fuck faster, and more often.
Then clearly, by your own description, the number of generations and number of offspring per generation, are a better indicator of when macroevolution has taken place, than time.
And yet, microevolution and macroevolution don't care how many generations have taken place or how long it takes; only what changes that have occurred in those generations.
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:37 pm
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 7:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
By my own description, or by your craven need to continue arguing for something that you don't even believe in? How much time is it going to take you to get anything right? Can we get an estimate in evolutionary units? Will your kids get it right, or maybe their kids? Their kids kids? For human beings (and human beings like us)..that's probably about 60 years.
I mean, sure, I could go into the weeds on why time is a requirement of reproductive isolation...but the specifics don't actually matter to you, do they? As soon as you can work out any figure or fact that would actually matter to you, I'll be on it. Until then, I'm just going to keep poking you for being so good at fucking up.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:42 pm
Quote:
Then clearly, by your own description, the number of generations and number of offspring per generation, are a better indicator of when macroevolution has taken place, than time.
And yet, microevolution and macroevolution don't care how many generations have taken place or how long it takes; only what changes that have occurred in those generations.
None of this changes the distinction being time
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: The code that is DNA
December 20, 2019 at 7:44 pm
A person who gets their rocks off instantaneously might not realize why time is a factor.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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