Quote:Yeah. Not enough concrete evidence is out there, yet you do not think further scientific inquiry and studies are necessary. Sounds like you don't want there to be concrete evidence.

Nope, there is more than enough concrete evidence so no there is no further necessary inquiry to say it's safe and effective and people should take it. It more sounds like you want to keep moving the goalpost into infinity so there is always an excuse to say "there is not enough evidence! show me more evidence!" it's the same bullshit flat-earthers and creationists do because they don't give a fuck about evidence.

You are the flat earther here, my friend. I'm calling for scientific inquiry and for the use of the scientific method, while you are resisting. You admit that there are many unknowns, which is not the case with the shape of the earth. We know what shape it is. You are thinking emotionally about the deaths and sickness caused by the pandemic which is why you are being anti-scientific right now, and of course there is that mass formation psychosis that you are suffering from as well.

'Safe' and 'effective' are not as clear of terms as you are pretending they are. Like I posted before, I will submit that the vaccines seem to be reasonably safe, but not everyone wanted to take these quickly put together, experimental vaccines. What does effective mean? Everyone and their brother is getting Omicron now, unvaccinated or vaccinated, but not long ago, President Biden was pushing misinformation and propaganda, pushing the lie that vaccinated people can't spread the virus. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...covid-19-/ We fact-checked a similar statement by Biden in October when he said people who are vaccinated for the coronavirus "cannot spread it to you." We found at the time that studies showed a vaccinated person was less likely to spread the virus, but the risk wasn’t zero. Why was the President pushing this lie to try to get people vaccinated? The ends justify the means? And safe can mean something different to each person, which is why each person should be able to make their own risk assessment imo.

And in other news, my Omicron symptoms, which to be honest were annoying, are gone today and I'm feeling good, and the covid brain fog is gone. I'm just really happy I caught Omicron, which didn't affect my breathing at all even though I have asthma, rather than a variant that actually affects your breathing. Hail Nimrod for that, and now I have both the protection from the vaccine and from getting covid, so call me selfish, but everything worked out for the best I think.

(January 12, 2022 at 1:23 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: You are the flat earther here, my friend. I'm calling for scientific inquiry and for the use of the scientific method, while you are resisting. You admit that there are many unknowns, which is not the case with the shape of the earth. We know what shape it is. You are thinking emotionally about the deaths and sickness caused by the pandemic which is why you are being anti-scientific right now, and of course there is that mass formation psychosis that you are suffering from as well.

'Safe' and 'effective' are not as clear of terms as you are pretending they are. Like I posted before, I will submit that the vaccines seem to be reasonably safe, but not everyone wanted to take these quickly put together, experimental vaccines. What does effective mean? Everyone and their brother is getting Omicron now, unvaccinated or vaccinated, but not long ago, President Biden was pushing misinformation and propaganda, pushing the lie that vaccinated people can't spread the virus. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...covid-19-/  We fact-checked a similar statement by Biden in October when he said people who are vaccinated for the coronavirus "cannot spread it to you." We found at the time that studies showed a vaccinated person was less likely to spread the virus, but the risk wasn’t zero.  Why was the President pushing this lie to try to get people vaccinated? The ends justify the means? And safe can mean something different to each person, which is why each person should be able to make their own risk assessment imo.

And in other news, my Omicron symptoms, which to be honest were annoying, are gone today and I'm feeling good, and the covid brain fog is gone. I'm just really happy I caught Omicron, which didn't affect my breathing at all even though I have asthma, rather than a variant that actually affects your breathing. Hail Nimrod for that, and now I have both the protection from the vaccine and from getting covid, so call me selfish, but everything worked out for the best I think.

Quote:You are the flat earther here, my friend. I'm calling for scientific inquiry and for the use of the scientific method, while you are resisting. You admit that there are many unknowns, which is not the case with the shape of the earth. We know what shape it is. You are thinking emotionally about the deaths and sickness caused by the pandemic which is why you are being anti-scientific right now, and of course, there is that mass formation psychosis that you are suffering from as well.

No, you are the flat earther here as you are the one question established science and peddling the word of quacks and kooks. I never admitted as such a thing I have multiple times we have what we need to say it's safe and effective. Like the shape of the earth, this shit is settled. No, it's you basing your thinking on emotions and you who is being anti-science and have no such psychosis you by contrast are one messed up person 

Quote:'Safe' and 'effective' are not as clear of terms as you are pretending they are. Like I posted before, I will submit that the vaccines seem to be reasonably safe, but not everyone wanted to take these quickly put together, experimental vaccines. What does effective mean? Everyone and their brother is getting Omicron now, unvaccinated or vaccinated, but not long ago, President Biden was pushing misinformation and propaganda, pushing the lie that vaccinated people can't spread the virus. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...covid-19-/ We fact-checked a similar statement by Biden in October when he said people who are vaccinated for the coronavirus "cannot spread it to you." We found at the time that studies showed a vaccinated person was less likely to spread the virus, but the risk wasn’t zero. Why was the President pushing this lie to try to get people vaccinated? The ends justify the means? And safe can mean something different to each person, which is why each person should be able to make their own risk assessment imo.

Irrelevant this does not change the fact the vaccine is  both safe and effective and they were not quickly put together nor are they even  experimental  as I explained earlier 

Quote:And in other news, my Omicron symptoms, which to be honest were annoying, are gone today and I'm feeling good, and the covid brain fog is gone. I'm just really happy I caught Omicron, which didn't affect my breathing at all even though I have asthma, rather than a variant that actually affects your breathing. Hail Nimrod for that, and now I have both the protection from the vaccine and from getting covid, so call me selfish, but everything worked out for the best I think.

Yup and you are not protected ...So have fun with that 

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(January 12, 2022 at 1:56 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(January 12, 2022 at 1:23 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: You are the flat earther here, my friend. I'm calling for scientific inquiry and for the use of the scientific method, while you are resisting. You admit that there are many unknowns, which is not the case with the shape of the earth. We know what shape it is. You are thinking emotionally about the deaths and sickness caused by the pandemic which is why you are being anti-scientific right now, and of course there is that mass formation psychosis that you are suffering from as well.

'Safe' and 'effective' are not as clear of terms as you are pretending they are. Like I posted before, I will submit that the vaccines seem to be reasonably safe, but not everyone wanted to take these quickly put together, experimental vaccines. What does effective mean? Everyone and their brother is getting Omicron now, unvaccinated or vaccinated, but not long ago, President Biden was pushing misinformation and propaganda, pushing the lie that vaccinated people can't spread the virus. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...covid-19-/  We fact-checked a similar statement by Biden in October when he said people who are vaccinated for the coronavirus "cannot spread it to you." We found at the time that studies showed a vaccinated person was less likely to spread the virus, but the risk wasn’t zero.  Why was the President pushing this lie to try to get people vaccinated? The ends justify the means? And safe can mean something different to each person, which is why each person should be able to make their own risk assessment imo.

And in other news, my Omicron symptoms, which to be honest were annoying, are gone today and I'm feeling good, and the covid brain fog is gone. I'm just really happy I caught Omicron, which didn't affect my breathing at all even though I have asthma, rather than a variant that actually affects your breathing. Hail Nimrod for that, and now I have both the protection from the vaccine and from getting covid, so call me selfish, but everything worked out for the best I think.

Yup an impressive word wall that ultimately says nothing at all 

The fact that we have had a massive trial of millions of people over the last year shows the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. At this point, if you are unvaxed, you are the control group. And the control group isn't doing so well.

The fact that the vast majority of people in the ER with covid are unvaxed shows that not getting the vaccines is far more dangerous than this disease.

NO medical treatment is 100% safe and effective for everyone. To expect 100% is simply being unreasonable.

But, we can establish that the danger of the vaccine is far, far less than the danger of the disease.

The spread of misinformation about covid and the vaccines is rampant and is killing people.

Comparing a purveyor of such misinformation with Copernicus is absurd in the highest degree.it shows a complete lack of understanding of the history of astronomy as well as the history of the current pandemic.

U.S. Sen. Rand Paul driving violent threats against me, Fauci says

"There you go again, you just do the same thing every hearing," Fauci told the senator, accusing him of making personal attacks that had no relation to reality. '

"He's doing this for political reasons," Fauci continued, pointing to fundraising appeals on Paul's website next to a call to have Fauci fired.

"What happens when he (Paul) gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden, that kindles the crazies out there and I have ... threats upon my life, harassment of my family and my children," Fauci said.

(January 12, 2022 at 1:23 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: You are the flat earther here, my friend. I'm calling for scientific inquiry and for the use of the scientific method, while you are resisting. You admit that there are many unknowns, which is not the case with the shape of the earth. We know what shape it is. You are thinking emotionally about the deaths and sickness caused by the pandemic which is why you are being anti-scientific right now, and of course there is that mass formation psychosis that you are suffering from as well.

'Safe' and 'effective' are not as clear of terms as you are pretending they are. Like I posted before, I will submit that the vaccines seem to be reasonably safe, but not everyone wanted to take these quickly put together, experimental vaccines. What does effective mean? Everyone and their brother is getting Omicron now, unvaccinated or vaccinated, but not long ago, President Biden was pushing misinformation and propaganda, pushing the lie that vaccinated people can't spread the virus. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...covid-19-/  We fact-checked a similar statement by Biden in October when he said people who are vaccinated for the coronavirus "cannot spread it to you." We found at the time that studies showed a vaccinated person was less likely to spread the virus, but the risk wasn’t zero.  Why was the President pushing this lie to try to get people vaccinated? The ends justify the means? And safe can mean something different to each person, which is why each person should be able to make their own risk assessment imo.

And in other news, my Omicron symptoms, which to be honest were annoying, are gone today and I'm feeling good, and the covid brain fog is gone. I'm just really happy I caught Omicron, which didn't affect my breathing at all even though I have asthma, rather than a variant that actually affects your breathing. Hail Nimrod for that, and now I have both the protection from the vaccine and from getting covid, so call me selfish, but everything worked out for the best I think.

Any brain fog you have experienced likely has not a damn thing to do with COVID.

(January 12, 2022 at 10:33 am)polymath257 Wrote: The fact that we have had a massive trial of millions of people over the last year shows the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. At this point, if you are unvaxed, you are the control group. And the control group isn't doing so well.

The fact that the vast majority of people in the ER with covid are unvaxed shows that not getting the vaccines is far more dangerous than this disease.

NO medical treatment is 100% safe and effective for everyone. To expect 100% is simply being unreasonable.

But, we can establish that the danger of the vaccine is far, far less than the danger of the disease.

The spread of misinformation about covid and the vaccines is rampant and is killing people.

Comparing a purveyor of such misinformation with Copernicus is absurd in the highest degree.it shows a complete lack of understanding of the history of astronomy as well as the history of the current pandemic.

Millions of people have taken the vaccines and their have been a shitload of potential adverse health effects after taking the vaccines. Look at VAERS and the huge spike in reported potential adverse health effects after taking the vaccines. You are completely ignoring this and being anti-science. These things need to be looked into. Why is the establishment resisting this, pray tell? The default position by the mainstream is that we have to assume that these adverse health effects were just coincidental. You can not say they are just all coincidental when you haven't done further study into this.

You are strawmanning me and I never posted that I expect vaccines to be 100 percent safe. Read before you post, please. How are you just going to jump into a discussion without reading what's been posted in the argument? Quit being lazy and actually read and try to understand the argument the other side is making. I decided it was safe enough for me to take, and I literally said the vaccines are reasonably safe, but I think it would be extremely immoral for me to make that risk assessment and decision for other adults, as the government seems to want to do.

You don't seem to understand the Copernicus point either. Right over your head. Quit being so emotional and actually read the other persons' argument. You have taken the blue pill and you have put your complete trust in the government and governmental agencies. I, on the other hand, took the red pill more than a decade ago, and I see that the NHS and WHO and etc are all corrupt to the core. I don't blindly trust like you do. I'm not religious like you are. You worship the government and the priest class like people did back in the days of Copernicus. You see these scientists speaking up today as heathens like you, someone who worships the priest class, would have seen Copernicus back in the day. You would have wanted him silenced for offending the state and for thinking outside of the box. He certainly was not in line with scientific consensus. You say there is scientific consensus about the vaccines, but scientific consensus in a developing situation means a lot less than scientific consensus in hindsight, obviously, and scientific consensus has been wrong over and over throughout history. That's how science advances.

This video below beautifully explains how you are just like those who called for the punishment of Galileo. I have a deep appreciation and love for the scientific method, while you worship governmental agencies. You should be ashamed, placing your worship of the priest class above the scientific method. Please watch this video and educate yourself, and quit with the strawmanning.

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(January 12, 2022 at 11:14 am)Ranjr Wrote: U.S. Sen. Rand Paul driving violent threats against me, Fauci says

"There you go again, you just do the same thing every hearing," Fauci told the senator, accusing him of making personal attacks that had no relation to reality. '

"He's doing this for political reasons," Fauci continued, pointing to fundraising appeals on Paul's website next to a call to have Fauci fired.

"What happens when he (Paul) gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden, that kindles the crazies out there and I have ... threats upon my life, harassment of my family and my children," Fauci said.

And Fauci lied to congress once again, this time about his emails. And Fauci is pathetically placing blame for the consequences of his own actions onto Senator Paul, who has asked him mostly legitimate questions. Pathetic that Fauci would pull the death threats card like this, right after lying about his emails and refusing to take responsibility for any of his actions. Fauci has been behaving disgracefully. And not long ago, he called for a news personality to be "fired on the spot" for telling people to ask Fauci questions if they see him in person. Not surprised to find out that Dr. Fauci is not a supporter of freedom of the press and wants to take a man's job away because he said something unkind about him.

I'm looking through the VAERS, and here's what I  found when looking for the side effects and how serious they are:

And here's the criteria I used:

Note that by 12/31/21, the date cited on the report form I got, the US had administered 513.19 million doses of the vaccine.

And doing the math, this means: 715857/513190000=0.1394916112941% showed side effects notable enough to get into the VAERS database.
And for these effects to be considered serious by the VAERS, 63588/513190000=0.01239073248%.

Odds of getting a side effect notable enough to get into the VAERS database: 1 in 716.
Odds of getting a side effect serious enough to be registered as serious in the VAERS database: 1 in 8070.

Quote:Millions of people have taken the vaccines and their have been a shitload of potential adverse health effects after taking the vaccines. Look at VAERS and the huge spike in reported potential adverse health effects after taking the vaccines. You are completely ignoring this and being anti-science. These things need to be looked into. Why is the establishment resisting this, pray tell? The default position by the mainstream is that we have to assume that these adverse health effects were just coincidental. You can not say they are just all coincidental when you haven't done further study into this.

You are strawmanning me and I never posted that I expect vaccines to be 100 percent safe. Read before you post, please. How are you just going to jump into a discussion without reading what's been posted in the argument? Quit being lazy and actually read and try to understand the argument the other side is making. I decided it was safe enough for me to take, and I literally said the vaccines are reasonably safe, but I think it would be extremely immoral for me to make that risk assessment and decision for other adults, as the government seems to want to do.

You don't seem to understand the Copernicus point either. Right over your head. Quit being so emotional and actually read the other persons' argument. You have taken the blue pill and you have put your complete trust in the government and governmental agencies. I, on the other hand, took the red pill more than a decade ago, and I see that the NHS and WHO and etc are all corrupt to the core. I don't blindly trust like you do. I'm not religious like you are. You worship the government and the priest class like people did back in the days of Copernicus. You see these scientists speaking up today as heathens like you, someone who worships the priest class, would have seen Copernicus back in the day. You would have wanted him silenced for offending the state and for thinking outside of the box. He certainly was not in line with scientific consensus. You say there is scientific consensus about the vaccines, but scientific consensus in a developing situation means a lot less than scientific consensus in hindsight, obviously, and scientific consensus has been wrong over and over throughout history. That's how science advances.

This video below beautifully explains how you are just like those who called for the punishment of Galileo. I have a deep appreciation and love for the scientific method, while you worship governmental agencies. You should be ashamed, placing your worship of the priest class above the scientific method. Please watch this video and educate yourself, and quit with the strawmanning.

---

(January 12, 2022 at 10:11 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: I'm looking through the VAERS, and here's what I  found when looking for the side effects and how serious they are:

And here's the criteria I used:

Note that by 12/31/21, the date cited on the report form I got, the US had administered 513.19 million doses of the vaccine.

And doing the math, this means: 715857/513190000=0.1394916112941% showed side effects notable enough to get into the VAERS database.
And for these effects to be considered serious by the VAERS, 63588/513190000=0.01239073248%.

Odds of getting a side effect notable enough to get into the VAERS database: 1 in 716.
Odds of getting a side effect serious enough to be registered as serious in the VAERS database: 1 in 8070.

And hell even the graph you cite makes it clear it didn't prove the Vaccine was the cause