Nowadays the most popular mediums are literature, and cinema in my opinion.

It seems to me that other mediums are dying out. Such as paintings and sculptures. Who says I want to become a painter (beyond hobby)? Or a sculptor?

Who can appreciate a painting (besides academics or q very small niche of people)?

There are some techniques that have gone basically extinct such as wood engraving (look at Gustavo Dore illustrations of Divine Comedy or Quijote for reference).

Do you think these mediums will ever come back or will stay as they are now?

(May 21, 2022 at 6:20 pm)Macoleco Wrote: Nowadays the most popular mediums are literature, and cinema in my opinion.

It seems to me that other mediums are dying out. Such as paintings and sculptures. Who says I want to become a painter (beyond hobby)? Or a sculptor?

Who can appreciate a painting (besides academics or q very small niche of people)?

There are some techniques that have gone basically extinct such as wood engraving (look at Gustavo Dore illustrations of Divine Comedy or Quijote for reference).

Do you think these mediums will ever come back or will stay as they are now?

I agree that there has been a decline in the art forms you mention, but so what? It’s largely due to the progressive nature of technology. No one writes on papyrus or wax tablets any more, either.

Boru

(May 21, 2022 at 6:20 pm)Macoleco Wrote: Nowadays the most popular mediums are literature, and cinema in my opinion.

And in schools that used to teach painting, it's far more likely they're offering classes in computer game design or anime. That's what the kids want to learn these days. 

Quote:It seems to me that other mediums are dying out. Such as paintings and sculptures. Who says I want to become a painter (beyond hobby)? Or a sculptor? 

There's certainly a terrible drop in quality. Partly it had to do with the change in education in the '60s and '70s. Teachers who had themselves trained in traditional painting techniques got the fashionable idea that teaching anything at all would stifle creativity. So basically they taught nothing, or had critiques where people talked about theory instead of practice.

In fact what happens when a student has no guidance isn't the free flowering of expression but the imitation of whatever happens to be fashionable. And by now we're into the second or third generation of teachers who were taught nothing. 

Quote:Who can appreciate a painting (besides academics or q very small niche of people)? 

I'd say anybody has the potential to appreciate good art. In most cases (not all) a wonderful painting will appeal immediately, and we don't need to study up on it to be grabbed by it. Then the best art continues to unfold and reward viewing, and these deeper levels will require repeated attention and asking questions.       

But to get anywhere with it at all requires calm attention, and we don't live in an era of calm attention. Flashy action and explosions distract us.

Quote:There are some techniques that have gone basically extinct such as wood engraving (look at Gustavo Dore illustrations of Divine Comedy or Quijote for reference). 

Pretty sure that Doré's illustrations are copper plate engraving. But your point stands -- it is a time consuming technique-heavy medium, and doing it means your hands will be stained black pretty much all the time. Computer art is clean and you can use a really cool Mac instead of smelly chemicals.

Quote:Do you think these mediums will ever come back or will stay as they are now?

Mostly continued decline for the foreseeable future. Schools, dealers, and (increasingly) museums reward the trendy. Art has to function now like advertising -- its whole message is revealed in the first 30 seconds. And the message is nearly always nothing but "ooh, cool," or the recognition of a social injustice which everybody who goes to galleries is already aware of. E.g."discrimination is bad."

The only good news is that anybody who devotes himself seriously to serious painting and sculpture will tend to be an obsessed eccentric, who doesn't do it for fame. It's still possible that good things will get made. They won't be in the newspapers, though. But young people with potential will mostly be attracted to flashier media.

(May 21, 2022 at 7:59 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(May 21, 2022 at 6:20 pm)Macoleco Wrote: Nowadays the most popular mediums are literature, and cinema in my opinion.

And in schools that used to teach painting, it's far more likely they're offering classes in computer game design or anime. That's what the kids want to learn these days. 

Quote:It seems to me that other mediums are dying out. Such as paintings and sculptures. Who says I want to become a painter (beyond hobby)? Or a sculptor? 

There's certainly a terrible drop in quality. Partly it had to do with the change in education in the '60s and '70s. Teachers who had themselves trained in traditional painting techniques got the fashionable idea that teaching anything at all would stifle creativity. So basically they taught nothing, or had critiques where people talked about theory instead of practice.

In fact what happens when a student has no guidance isn't the free flowering of expression but the imitation of whatever happens to be fashionable. And by now we're into the second or third generation of teachers who were taught nothing. 

Quote:Who can appreciate a painting (besides academics or q very small niche of people)? 

I'd say anybody has the potential to appreciate good art. In most cases (not all) a wonderful painting will appeal immediately, and we don't need to study up on it to be grabbed by it. Then the best art continues to unfold and reward viewing, and these deeper levels will require repeated attention and asking questions.       

But to get anywhere with it at all requires calm attention, and we don't live in an era of calm attention. Flashy action and explosions distract us.

Quote:There are some techniques that have gone basically extinct such as wood engraving (look at Gustavo Dore illustrations of Divine Comedy or Quijote for reference). 

Pretty sure that Doré's illustrations are copper plate engraving. But your point stands -- it is a time consuming technique-heavy medium, and doing it means your hands will be stained black pretty much all the time. Computer art is clean and you can use a really cool Mac instead of smelly chemicals.

Quote:Do you think these mediums will ever come back or will stay as they are now?

Mostly continued decline for the foreseeable future. Schools, dealers, and (increasingly) museums reward the trendy. Art has to function now like advertising -- its whole message is revealed in the first 30 seconds. And the message is nearly always nothing but "ooh, cool," or the recognition of a social injustice which everybody who goes to galleries is already aware of. E.g."discrimination is bad."

The only good news is that anybody who devotes himself seriously to serious painting and sculpture will tend to be an obsessed eccentric, who doesn't do it for fame. It's still possible that good things will get made. They won't be in the newspapers, though. But young people with potential will mostly be attracted to flashier media.

Completely agree with the part about the recognition of a social issue everyone knows about. It seems nowadays for a movie to be considered “artistic” and be displayed on the Cannes Festival it needs to be about a social issue. It feels shoehorned.

When was the last time you bought a high quality original work of art?

(May 21, 2022 at 10:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: When was the last time you bought a high quality original work of art?

Last month:

Ukiyo-e woodcut by Toyokuni III, showing (in anachronistic Edo-period dress) the famous e-awase scene from the Tale of Genji.

The most modern things I have are woodcuts by Munakata Shiko, who died in the '70s sometime.

You forgot TV. People spend more time watching serial television than movies and books combined.

(May 21, 2022 at 10:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(May 21, 2022 at 10:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: When was the last time you bought a high quality original work of art?

Last month:

Ukiyo-e woodcut by Toyokuni III, showing (in anachronistic Edo-period dress) the famous e-awase scene from the Tale of Genji.

The most modern things I have are woodcuts by Munakata Shiko, who died in the '70s sometime.

Maybe you personally, yes, but in general there is no real middle class market for visual art. And quality options to middle class patrons are very niche and limited. So it is really just a matter of the cost of production being so high that ownership is a luxury. It takes a great deal of time, skill, and dedication to make a fine art oil painting. As a society we get what we pay for...if we're lucky...which is why visual art died long ago, giving way to cheap naratives. Twenty years ago it seemed to me you could not be expected to 'appreciated' a work of art without reading the Artist's Statement first. The story about the art became more important than the art itself. We are now a culture driven by competing made-up perspectives that may or may not have any correspondence to what is actually happening. The truest art always seems to transcend its origin into something primal and uniquely human. Art reveals what Story obscures.

(May 21, 2022 at 11:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(May 21, 2022 at 10:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Last month:

Ukiyo-e woodcut by Toyokuni III, showing (in anachronistic Edo-period dress) the famous e-awase scene from the Tale of Genji.

The most modern things I have are woodcuts by Munakata Shiko, who died in the '70s sometime.

Maybe you personally, yes, but in general there is no real middle class market for visual art. And quality options to middle class patrons are very niche and limited. So it is really just a matter of the cost of production being so high that ownership is a luxury. It takes a great deal of time, skill, and dedication to make a fine art oil painting. As a society we get what we pay for...if we're lucky...which is why visual art died long ago, giving way to cheap naratives. Twenty years ago it seemed to me you could not be expected to 'appreciated' a work of art without reading the Artist's Statement first. The story about the art became more important than the art itself. We are now a culture driven by competing made-up perspectives that may or may not have any correspondence to what is actually happening. The truest art always seems to transcend its origin into something primal and uniquely human. Art reveals what Story obscures.

I agree with the part of made up perspectives not related to reality. It seems there are two different worlds: the one people talk about internet, and the real one. For some reason the discourse on the internet is usually far from the truth. Going out is usually enough to see the difference. Yet people don’t talk about this issues on person, only on the internet.

We are creating an imaginary world on the internet where people agree or disagree.

(May 21, 2022 at 6:20 pm)Macoleco Wrote: Nowadays the most popular mediums are literature, and cinema in my opinion.

It seems to me that other mediums are dying out. Such as paintings and sculptures. Who says I want to become a painter (beyond hobby)? Or a sculptor?

Who can appreciate a painting (besides academics or q very small niche of people)?

There are some techniques that have gone basically extinct such as wood engraving (look at Gustavo Dore illustrations of Divine Comedy or Quijote for reference).

Do you think these mediums will ever come back or will stay as they are now?

And the sad thing is that even cinema is dying if this Twitter thread and the replies corroborating it are any indication.