Why are we discussing what a nonexistent being "thinks" or "knows"?

(October 30, 2022 at 4:14 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why are we discussing what a nonexistent being "thinks" or "knows"?

Because we were asked about free will considered in the context of such a Being. This is a little known rhetorical technique called ‘responding to the OP’.

Boru

(October 30, 2022 at 1:24 pm)Orbit Wrote:

(October 30, 2022 at 11:23 am)Mystical Wrote: Just wondering if there was anyone who wanted to explain free will in reference to the existence of god and why suffering is a thing that exists for all eternity according to Christianity but god did it so its ok? I keep running into self proclaimed Christains who claim god "isnt like that" and they don't believe in Hell.
Isn't that like having your cake and eating it too? There's an entire book dedicated to it in the New Testament after all..

May not be a new topic for you but I want to refresh my memory on the subject with anyone (within reason) whose interested.

The Christian logic is usually along the lines of "God wants you to make a free choice". This runs into trouble under Calvinism, because of predestination, though.

It runs into trouble for the simple reason that if God "wants" something" then he lacks something, and therefore cannot be infinite.

(October 30, 2022 at 5:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 30, 2022 at 4:14 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why are we discussing what a nonexistent being "thinks" or "knows"?

Because we were asked about free will considered in the context of such a Being. This is a little known rhetorical technique called ‘responding to the OP’.

Boru

Perhaps, but, it's still a non sequitur; you haven't even defined the terms that you are using.

Dawn

(October 30, 2022 at 8:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(October 30, 2022 at 5:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Because we were asked about free will considered in the context of such a Being. This is a little known rhetorical technique called ‘responding to the OP’.

Boru

Perhaps, but, it's still a non sequitur; you haven't even defined the terms that you are using.

Dawn

It doesn’t matter. Not being able to define god is only a problem for Christians.

The fun part of subjective interpretation is multiple schisms. And even though one denomination may gossip about another local denomination on Sunday morning in church, I witnessed this myself when I was younger, they still figure a fellow believer who may not be in the right church is better than a non-believer.

(October 30, 2022 at 9:15 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 30, 2022 at 8:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Perhaps, but, it's still a non sequitur; you haven't even defined the terms that you are using.

Dawn

It doesn’t matter. Not being able to define god is only a problem for Christians.

I agree! My point is that in terms of the last 2,000 years of "Christian" theology the views being expressed in the OP and the subsequent replies have been too narrow. An excellent book is, "Jesus Through the Centuries: His Place in the History of Culture", which shows the diversity of Christian thought & belief. In the area of free will there have been huge differences from Augustine to Aquinas to Scotus to Ockham to Luther & Calvin (and, between them).

One can't know God's grace without a full taste of evil.  If a clear path is all we know, we have nothing to learn.  The apple was a blessing, not a curse.

People are nonetheless imperfect, and will fail at making sense of their perfect creator.