(July 19, 2023 at 1:01 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(July 19, 2023 at 1:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I was speaking specifically about religious beliefs/teachings.

I thought I was pretty clear.

Case in point.

Got it, it's that mood today.

(July 19, 2023 at 12:42 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(July 19, 2023 at 12:29 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: It's interesting to me that some theists come to places like this in an attempt to bring non-believers over to the believer side of things but are against potentially learning from the non-theists to be more accepting of others.  They want to 'educate' but refuse to be educated.

Those god blinders are pretty darn effective.

In fairness, that tends to be a human trait, not one exclusive to the religious.  The challenge is recognizing it in ourselves.  Pointing it out in others is a piece of cake.

That's fair.

(July 19, 2023 at 5:20 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(July 18, 2023 at 10:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It hardly matters whether a god changes it's mind.  If a christian says that god isn't telling them to be an asshole - that's fantastic....gods off the hook.

So what's their problem?  Why are they being such a fucking weirdo about it?

I just want Lek to tell me if it's okay to kill queers or not. Either it is, and his prior statements were false, or it isn't and God changed his mind.

Ok. I know what the old Jewish law commanded. Do we have that straight? I don't think it's ok to kill queers. i don't know why the command was dropped, except that it was superseded by the new law. I hope that answers your question. All I wanted to discuss is whether or not so called trans men are really women and, if they are,.give me some characteristics of a man.

A man is whatever he says he is. We don't have to believe him, but acceptance goes a long way.

(July 19, 2023 at 9:34 pm)Tomato Wrote: A man is whatever he says he is. We don't have to believe him, but acceptance goes a long way.

Sorry. I can't accept that. I always wanted to be a great baseball player and I have played baseball. I could believe all I want, feel like a great player and identify as one. It would be no help to me to have people pretend to agree with me. By the way, what makes a great player? Is it what I think it is or what it really is. Can I hit, field, steal, pitch, etc. I think a great player strikes out all the time, misses fly balls, is slow on the base pads, etc. Am I correct?

You are incorrect, by convoluting the concept by comparing the skills earned in being a baseball player with the mindset of identity.

(July 19, 2023 at 10:01 pm)Tomato Wrote: You are incorrect, by convoluting the concept by comparing the skills earned in being a baseball player with the mindset of identity.

And your mistake is considering identity a mindset. That is a personality trait, essentially conflating some individuals' personality traits with a social category. When it comes to identity, its validity has nothing to do with how one sees oneself. All that matters, from an identity point of view is how other people see each other. You cannot take the social part out of what gender proponents have said for decades are socially constructed categories.

(July 19, 2023 at 10:01 pm)Tomato Wrote: You are incorrect, by convoluting the concept by comparing the skills earned in being a baseball player with the mindset of identity.

Oh com'on. Atheists won't believe in God unless it can be proven. You guys want hard evidence. You won't believe in something without the hard evidence. Not only can they offer no evidence, they can't even give you the slightest definition of what it is in the first place. And you folks aid them in this charade. You should be ashamed. The way to get through a situation is not to pretend it doesn't exist. You're lying to these people in need.

(July 19, 2023 at 9:58 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 19, 2023 at 9:34 pm)Tomato Wrote: A man is whatever he says he is. We don't have to believe him, but acceptance goes a long way.

Sorry. I can't accept that. I always wanted to be a great baseball player and I have played baseball. I could believe all I want, feel like a great player and identify as one. It would be no help to me to have people pretend to agree with me. By the way, what makes a great player?  Is it what I think it is or what it really is. Can I hit, field, steal, pitch, etc. I think a great player strikes out all the time, misses fly balls, is slow on the base pads, etc.  Am I correct?

Depends on the the metric for what constitutes a great baseball player.

In the case of gender, depends on what society uses as a metric for determining gender. The problem is that it's proven to be far more complex than just looking at one or two binary variables. We don't know what the characteristics exactly are of being a man, but we can all make observations that show it can't just simply be about genitals or chromosomes, and that environmental factors do play some part as well, however it does it.

(July 19, 2023 at 10:35 pm)GrandizerII Wrote:

(July 19, 2023 at 9:58 pm)Lek Wrote: Sorry. I can't accept that. I always wanted to be a great baseball player and I have played baseball. I could believe all I want, feel like a great player and identify as one. It would be no help to me to have people pretend to agree with me. By the way, what makes a great player?  Is it what I think it is or what it really is. Can I hit, field, steal, pitch, etc. I think a great player strikes out all the time, misses fly balls, is slow on the base pads, etc.  Am I correct?

Depends on the the metric for what constitutes a great baseball player.

In the case of gender, depends on what society uses as a metric for determining gender. The problem is that it's proven to be far more complex than just looking at one or two binary variables. We don't know what the characteristics exactly are of being a man, but we can all make observations that show it can't just simply be about genitals or chromosomes, and that environmental factors do play some part as well, however it does it.

If you can't come up with one non-physical characteristic of a man, then you have absolutely no evidence to support this claim.