(July 2, 2009 at 6:43 pm)Tiberius Wrote: If God picked this one survivor, then he did not pick the others ...

There are far too many Christians who claim to believe in a God that is omniscient and omnipotent, but try to pretend he has nothing to do with 'bad' things that happen in this world. To such Christians I have to say, "Own up to the God you espouse, or go find a religion with sufficient warm-fuzzies for you." If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then he not only knew precisely what was going to happen but willed it. Yes, it was God's will that the girl survived. And yes, it was God's will that the other 150 or so died. Own up to it.

It contradicts the omnipotence of God to pretend something is beyond his control, and contradicts his omniscience to pretend he didn't see something coming. You can create a God that is more to your liking, but don't try pretending it's the God of Christian theism.

Pippy, in answer to your post 9:
First;ly I'm 59 years old, dad died 15 years ago and mother 93 and senile, so they ain't got much to talk to me about, be it death or anything!
Of course death is inevitable. What offends atheists is when god is thanked for saving 1 out of 152 innocent people with lives to live that get cut short. If god is responsible for saving the 1, he is equally responsible for not saving the 151.
I don't believe either that the father of the 1 was being rude----just deluded.

Hey,

I apologize for the term 'did your parents talk too you about the yet'. It is uncalled for. I don't think you guys are in a position to tell me about the responsibilities of God, you don't even think he exists! In a sense, mathematically, God is responsible for 'killing' those plane crash victims. But to be angry, or speak poorly of the father quoted in the papers is foolish and offensive. Every one dies. I don't believe there is such a thing as a life cut short. Too think about it as such is dangerous. That is just what I think.

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, but you guys are not in a position to understand the potential nature of gods. So when you rudely question and misunderstand what god represents to people that think it exists, it comes across as infuriating. I think a big part of god is the constuction of the systems. Death is a necessary part of the system of life. God made the system that made life possible, so to blame him for death, like some murderous human, is fickle and naive.

I think that is pretty deluded itself.
You know not what the man on the TV meant. I don't think you should put words in his mouth.

Again, I am sorry that I am not being more polite. It is just a very offensive spectacle.
Thank you for listening.
-Pip

Christianity has a doubt proof dogma: if you die it's because God wants you to be in heaven and if you live it's because God is "merciful" and "loving". Christians have made up answers for everything.

(July 4, 2009 at 3:05 am)Overmars Wrote: Christianity has a doubt proof dogma: if you die it's because God wants you to be in heaven and if you live it's because God is "merciful" and "loving". Christians have made up answers for everything.

Indeed. It is claimed even this is the way such dramatic loss can provide 'meaning'. Shivers run down my spine when I hear this. It is the way of the lord and his ways are never to be questioned because his moral is impeccable by definition. This kind of christianity (the range is very wide, mind you!) is a death cult.

(July 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm)Pippy Wrote: Hey,

I apologize for the term 'did your parents talk too you about the yet'. It is uncalled for. I don't think you guys are in a position to tell me about the responsibilities of God, you don't even think he exists! In a sense, mathematically, God is responsible for 'killing' those plane crash victims. But to be angry, or speak poorly of the father quoted in the papers is foolish and offensive. Every one dies. I don't believe there is such a thing as a life cut short. Too think about it as such is dangerous. That is just what I think.

Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, but you guys are not in a position to understand the potential nature of gods. So when you rudely question and misunderstand what god represents to people that think it exists, it comes across as infuriating. I think a big part of god is the constuction of the systems. Death is a necessary part of the system of life. God made the system that made life possible, so to blame him for death, like some murderous human, is fickle and naive.

I think that is pretty deluded itself.
You know not what the man on the TV meant. I don't think you should put words in his mouth.

Again, I am sorry that I am not being more polite. It is just a very offensive spectacle.
Thank you for listening.
-Pip

You are right, I think it highly improbable that god exists. However, even if he does, then I would not worship such a capricious and vain being.
Every time somebody " thanks god " for being saved or for somebody they know being saved when others perish deserves any comment thrown at them in my book.
You say we are infuriating for questioning god's existence...too bad....you infuriate us for peddling superstition, including creationism.
I am not putting any words in the father of the survivor's lips..I don't need to, I simply quote what he said and I repeat he is deluded. Deluded because his daughter's survival was simply an example of extreme good fortune and not as a result of divine intervention and deluded in believing in god's existence anyway.
You don't need to apologise, we have pretty tough skins on this site.

(July 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm)Pippy Wrote: but you guys are not in a position to understand the potential nature of gods.

ROFLMAO ... you mean we don't understand because we're not stupid enough to buy into the crap you do?

(July 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm)Pippy Wrote: So when you rudely question and misunderstand what god represents to people that think it exists, it comes across as infuriating.

You know there is a solution ... stop being so irrational, then we won't be so "infuriating" ... simples eh?

Kyu

Quote:I ask you directly how/why you can worship such a fiend?

It's either that or nothing, lump it or leave it. If you don't like life, then die. Or be thankful.

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(July 4, 2009 at 3:29 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote: This kind of christianity (the range is very wide, mind you!) is a death cult.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

(July 3, 2009 at 12:39 am)Arcanus Wrote: It contradicts the omnipotence of God to pretend something is beyond his control, and contradicts his omniscience to pretend he didn't see something coming. You can create a God that is more to your liking, but don't try pretending it's the God of Christian theism.

Well said Arcanus. Back when I was a Theist, my interpretation of God from my studies of the bible wasn't all feely touchy nice and certainly was above what mere humans considered "good" and "right" which I have long held as relative terms. Yes, god aced 151 people and allowed one to live. Does that make the survivor special? Well...

(July 2, 2009 at 2:28 pm)bozo Wrote: The survivor's father is quoted as saying " I can't say it's a miracle, I can say that it is God's will ".

To the father, the survivor is special so he is happy with how (as I see it) them bones rolled, and he calls it God's will. The way I read that qoute is the father IS ackowledging the "bad" of the situation by NOT labeling it a miracle and also paying homage to his God by mentioning his will. Whether the father would see the 151 people who lost their lives as "victims" of God or "saved" remains unclear.

@Pippy I've read a bunch of your posts and there are some coherent bits but you are all over the map with how you debate; attacking the way people are talking about a topic? Seems a laborious undertaking to defend the method of debate along with the actual argument at hand. I would qoute you and talk about specifics but it would be like searching out specific noodles in a plate of spaghetti and I've already had lunch. It would be cool if you could just serve up the meetballs that I have seen in some of your posts. I don't really want to get into a pissing contest with you because we will both end up wet and smelling of urine, I just thought I would let you know how I viewed you, for whatever THAT's worth.

Rhizo

(July 4, 2009 at 3:36 pm)Anto Kennedy Wrote:

Quote:I ask you directly how/why you can worship such a fiend?

It's either that or nothing, lump it or leave it. If you don't like life, then die. Or be thankful.

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(July 4, 2009 at 3:29 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote: This kind of christianity (the range is very wide, mind you!) is a death cult.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

So you will worship a fiend because a fiend is the only option, if you want to worship? Have you even considered the obvious which is that god probably doesn't exist?
As for die or be thankful, what do you mean exactly?

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