(December 15, 2024 at 2:27 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: To me violence is morally unjustified. Even if it leads to desired outcomes.

Would it be morally justified to use violence to stop a man who was raping a child? If not, then standing by and letting the rape proceed must be a more moral act, then.

Boru

Edit: Sorry, I missed your reply to Thump.

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 15, 2024 at 2:27 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: To me violence is morally unjustified. Even if it leads to desired outcomes.

Would it be morally justified to use violence to stop a man who was raping a child?

Boru

Yes. So I don’t see the rule I gave as absolute. Rather, I see it as a rule of thumb.

(December 15, 2024 at 2:49 pm)Disagreeable Wrote:

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Would it be morally justified to use violence to stop a man who was raping a child?

Boru

Yes. So I don’t see the rule I gave as absolute. Rather, I see it as a rule of thumb.

I largely agree. Some acts of violence can be morally justifiable. Violence for the sake of violence is reprehensible.

Boru

I was just noticing that while violence may not be the best path to power, it sure does comprise a lot of our entertainment in movies and television.

(December 15, 2024 at 2:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 15, 2024 at 2:49 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: Yes. So I don’t see the rule I gave as absolute. Rather, I see it as a rule of thumb.

I largely agree. Some acts of violence can be morally justifiable. Violence for the sake of violence is reprehensible.

Boru

I agree

(December 15, 2024 at 2:51 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I was just noticing that while violence may not be the best path to power, it sure does compromise a lot of our entertainment in movies and television.

Art imitates life.

Boru

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)Disagreeable Wrote:

(December 15, 2024 at 2:44 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Even in self-defense?

In that case I see it as practically justified but not morally justified.

Mostly.

I do think that there are exceptions. An example would be when your defense leads to less overall suffering than your non-defense.

So if someone gave an edict that you should die painlessly for no particular reason, just it's your number is up, using violence to counteract it would be immoral? You don't think it's moral to deploy violence to save your own life?

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: In general, then, I would recommend minimal force.

Ought you not then recommend that those busy killing follow this? And if they don't, what recourse aside from hand-wringing before you bleed out do you have?

(December 15, 2024 at 2:55 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: In that case I see it as practically justified but not morally justified.

Mostly.

I do think that there are exceptions. An example would be when your defense leads to less overall suffering than your non-defense.

Quote:So if someone gave an edict that you should die painlessly for no particular reason, just it's your number is up, using violence to counteract it would be immoral? You don't think it's moral to deploy violence to save your own life?

If I were to die painlessly then I wouldn’t care because I wouldn’t suffer.

(December 15, 2024 at 2:47 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: In general, then, I would recommend minimal force.

Quote:Ought you not then recommend that those busy killing follow this? And if they don't, what recourse aside from hand-wringing before you bleed out do you have?

Rather than being busy killing I absolutely recommend minimal force. I’m not sure that I follow the other part of your argument. Can you rephrase?

Sorry for the mess of the quotes. I did my best.

(December 15, 2024 at 2:51 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I was just noticing that while violence may not be the best path to power, it sure does comprise a lot of our entertainment in movies and television.

It may be in the nature of art, but I think there is a certain truth to the idea that many, men particular, like violence and admire violent people.

Look at the recent admiration for Luigi Mangione, the HCU executive shooter.

Another example is rape porn. Why do people find watching someone raped to be titillating?