(January 11, 2025 at 10:17 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 4:43 am)Jamie Smithie Wrote: Can you be more specific about what you mean by overrepresented? 

Yes. 

Quote:You mean that not all of those muslim prisoners are guilty? 

No, and Muslim is a proper noun. 

Quote:Or do you mean that there are far more criminals among muslims per capita than whites and that that's the reason why so many are in prison?

No, it means the percentage of Muslims convicted of a crime and receiving a custodial sentence, is higher than the percentage of Muslims in the general population.  

Now, how about you address your error that crime is increasing, when there is objective evidence that it has been decreasing across the board for 30 years, as was demonstrated in the citation I offered. and a second citation from another poster.

Well from what I've seen and from what people say, it is increasing. Do you have any graphs or anything showing otherwise?

(January 11, 2025 at 10:41 am)Jamie Smithie Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 10:17 am)Sheldon Wrote: Yes. 


No, and Muslim is a proper noun. 

No, it means the percentage of Muslims convicted of a crime and receiving a custodial sentence, is higher than the percentage of Muslims in the general population.  

Now, how about you address your error that crime is increasing, when there is objective evidence that it has been decreasing across the board for 30 years, as was demonstrated in the citation I offered. and a second citation from another poster.

Well from what I've seen and from what people say, it is increasing. Do you have any graphs or anything showing otherwise?

You have already had two sperate citations demonstrating that crime has decreased steadily since the 80's, with the exceptions of cyber crime, and mobile phone theft, and for pretty obvious reasons. Would you really trust unevidenced third-party hearsay over that? Why? What one person has seen, doesn't evidence national trends in crime, I think you must be able to see that this is a preposterous idea.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:14 am)Sheldon Wrote: Would you really trust unevidenced third-party hearsay over that? Why?

When all you have to sell is fear, you will always believe the most frightful things, whether or not they're true. It helps that those frightful things happen to support his bigotry in a roundabout way.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:17 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 11:14 am)Sheldon Wrote: Would you really trust unevidenced third-party hearsay over that? Why?

When all you have to sell is fear, you will always believe the most frightful things, whether or not they're true. It helps that those frightful things happen to support his bigotry in a roundabout way.

I have seen even decent, reasonably well educated people fall into this trap, letting base fears drive their reasoning, perhaps we can reach him, and demonstrate that this is a very poor way to reason, that the more objective arguments and evidence are, the more reliable they become, and that the more we have, the more reliable it is that what they support is true.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:27 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 11:17 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: When all you have to sell is fear, you will always believe the most frightful things, whether or not they're true. It helps that those frightful things happen to support his bigotry in a roundabout way.

I have seen even decent, reasonably well educated people fall into this trap, letting base fears drive their reasoning, perhaps we can reach him, and demonstrate that this is a very poor way to reason, that the more objective arguments and evidence are, the more reliable they become, and that the more we have, the more reliable it is that what they support is true.

I wish I shared your optimism.

(January 11, 2025 at 10:41 am)Jamie Smithie Wrote: Well from what I've seen and from what people say, it is increasing.

Some people say?! You have seen stuff (unknown to others)?! Now, that settles the matter.
Wasnt it rising and not increasing in the first place? Someone (you) told me in another forum that rising =!= increasing.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:31 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 11:27 am)Sheldon Wrote: I have seen even decent, reasonably well educated people fall into this trap, letting base fears drive their reasoning, perhaps we can reach him, and demonstrate that this is a very poor way to reason, that the more objective arguments and evidence are, the more reliable they become, and that the more we have, the more reliable it is that what they support is true.

I wish I shared your optimism.

Oh, to be clear, I wouldn't claim to have any expectations, let alone be optimistic, but one can try, and in trying it's an opportunity for me to re-examine ideas, and my own reasoning, it can always benefit from the critical scrutiny.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:14 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 10:41 am)Jamie Smithie Wrote: Well from what I've seen and from what people say, it is increasing. Do you have any graphs or anything showing otherwise?

You have already had two sperate citations demonstrating that crime has decreased steadily since the 80's, with the exceptions of cyber crime, and mobile phone theft, and for pretty obvious reasons. Would you really trust unevidenced third-party hearsay over that? Why? What one person has seen, doesn't evidence national trends in crime, I think you must be able to see that this is a preposterous idea.

Hey I'm just going by what I've seen and heard. I don't have to go by the same things as you, do I? I observe, and I believe what my eyes tell me. Worked for my grampa and my daddy and it works for me.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:33 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 10:41 am)Jamie Smithie Wrote: Well from what I've seen and from what people say, it is increasing.

Some people say?! You have seen stuff (unknown to others)?! Now, that settles the matter.
Wasnt it rising and not increasing in the first place? Someone (you) told me in another forum that rising =!= increasing.

I know this leapt out as third part hearsay, almost as alarming as the hyperbole of the "everyone knows" assertion. So for clarity, since he seems to think these are compelling claims, claiming to know what "everyone" thinks is risible hyperbole, and of course, the number of people who believe something (alone), tells us nothing about the validity of that belief. In the absence of any objective evidence, as this claim was offered, it represents a bare appeal to numbers, which of course is how an argumentum ad populum fallacy is defined. making the claim irrational, by definition.

(January 11, 2025 at 11:41 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 11, 2025 at 11:33 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Some people say?! You have seen stuff (unknown to others)?! Now, that settles the matter.
Wasnt it rising and not increasing in the first place? Someone (you) told me in another forum that rising =!= increasing.

I know this leapt out as third part hearsay, almost as alarming as the hyperbole of the "everyone knows" assertion. So for clarity, since he seems to think these are compelling claims, claiming to know what "everyone" thinks is risible hyperbole, and of course, the number of people who believe something (alone), tells us nothing about the validity of that belief. In the absence of any objective evidence, as this claim was offered, it represents a bare appeal to numbers, which of course is how an argumentum ad populum fallacy is defined. making the claim irrational, by definition.

I don't understand all your complicated words, all I know is that when my eyes tell me something, I should believe it. I didn't go to your fancy university, all I know is my farm, my cows, my horses, and the difference between shit and shinola.