You left out this bit of Matthew

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

(February 6, 2012 at 8:19 am)Zen Badger Wrote: You left out this bit of Matthew

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whenever a Christian tries to justify the new covenant they ALWAYS deliberately leave that out of the equation. Now let's hear the mental gymnastics of our resident christoholic so he can justify ignoring those two verses.

Quote:Mark 2:25-28

He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Easy there BL, your setting yourself above your own God, making yourself a priest and or a Lord. Rember your covenant: no other gods before me, in which Christianity that is quite the magic trick, due to you must go through one god to get to another god, little paganish don't you think.

Hbr 4:9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God.

Pretty cut and dry isn't it.

Quote:And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one

Glad you brought this up, so a yes or no question: Blood is the basis for your belief.

Quote:"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Perhaps this teaching is what has given all your high priest the right to sodomize and rape children.

Quote:It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Again an ignorant teaching, don't worry honey at least I didn't cheat on you, what a joke.

Quote:Is this enough? The sacrifice I would ask that you make is your pride, that you would humble yourself to ask God for forgiveness .

The paragraph itself has enough religious platitude in it that perhaps you should be the one asking for my forgiveness.

Welcome, brotherlylove. Sorry I'm late to the thread.

I'm one of those folks who was raised Christian (Pentecostal), read the Bible (KJV) once from devotion and a second time (Living Bible) to make sure I hadn't been confused by the Old English. That didn't make me an atheist (that came years later), but it did make me an agnostic theist. I believed in some sort of a God, but found the thought that the Bible was 'ordained' by a supreme being rather horrifying given the barbarism and primitive tribal morality. Just sharing for background.

You seem to be making an argument from 'feels good, got good results'. I'm sure you realize that your perceptions are incapable of verifying that any supernatural power you may have been in contact with was in fact the creator God of the Bible. A much lesser spirit would be capable of making you feel loved and awesome and free you from your addictions. It doesn't take the power to turn stars into flamingoes to pull off what you're describing. One could argue that it's achievable by altered brain states, no paranormal invtervention required. It's the one promise any religion can keep: if you believe, then you'll find 'evidence'. However, the nature of true evidence is that it leads someone who is initially skeptical to believe; religion turns it around because it has hit on the technique of getting potential recruits to convert themselves by convincing them that to give whatever religion they're selling a fair chance, they have to try believing it first and then getting the evidence. It's really very brilliant.

So, converts to other religions (not to mention various self-help programs) can make similar claims. Where does that leave you and your 'evidence'?

(February 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm)brotherlylove Wrote:

(February 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: Under your theology hitler could easily get into heaven.
Ps hi.

Hello there. Yes, anyone could potentially get to Heaven, because God shows no partiality between persons. It isn't about how bad a person you have been, because Jesus paid the price for all sins. It is about forgiveness and redemption.

What shit. Fuck off.

(February 6, 2012 at 4:27 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:

(February 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm)brotherlylove Wrote:

(February 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: Under your theology hitler could easily get into heaven.
Ps hi.

Hello there. Yes, anyone could potentially get to Heaven, because God shows no partiality between persons. It isn't about how bad a person you have been, because Jesus paid the price for all sins. It is about forgiveness and redemption.

What shit. Fuck off.

Right. Its about forgiveness and redemption and thats how they hook you. Soon they will mold you to fit the cult and if you dont give in to the other changes then you are "ignoring gods love and forgiveness"

If it was REALLY about forgiveness, then he would have forgiven us with no strings attached.

(February 6, 2012 at 8:19 am)Zen Badger Wrote: You left out this bit of Matthew

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

(February 6, 2012 at 9:22 am)Phil Wrote: Whenever a Christian tries to justify the new covenant they ALWAYS deliberately leave that out of the equation. Now let's hear the mental gymnastics of our resident christoholic so he can justify ignoring those two verses.

Notice the key word there? "Fulfilled"

John 19:28-30

After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

---

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: Easy there BL, your setting yourself above your own God, making yourself a priest and or a Lord. Rember your covenant: no other gods before me, in which Christianity that is quite the magic trick, due to you must go through one god to get to another god, little paganish don't you think.

I showed you where Jesus changed the convenants, and the mosaic laws. Are you mature enough to admit it?

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: Hbr 4:9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God.

Pretty cut and dry isn't it.

Jesus taught that He is our Sabbath rest.

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: Glad you brought this up, so a yes or no question: Blood is the basis for your belief.

No,Jesus is the basis of my belief. He paid for our sins with His blood, and rose from the dead.

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: Perhaps this teaching is what has given all your high priest the right to sodomize and rape children.

The catholic church is not christian by any stretch of the imagination.

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: Again an ignorant teaching, don't worry honey at least I didn't cheat on you, what a joke.

Your commentary here is bereft of insight.

(February 6, 2012 at 10:41 am)renew Wrote: The paragraph itself has enough religious platitude in it that perhaps you should be the one asking for my forgiveness.

I have not spoken platitudes, but the words that lead to life.

---

(February 6, 2012 at 12:07 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Welcome, brotherlylove. Sorry I'm late to the thread.

I'm one of those folks who was raised Christian (Pentecostal), read the Bible (KJV) once from devotion and a second time (Living Bible) to make sure I hadn't been confused by the Old English. That didn't make me an atheist (that came years later), but it did make me an agnostic theist. I believed in some sort of a God, but found the thought that the Bible was 'ordained' by a supreme being rather horrifying given the barbarism and primitive tribal morality. Just sharing for background.

Nice to meet you, ex-bro. What led you to be an atheist?

(February 6, 2012 at 12:07 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You seem to be making an argument from 'feels good, got good results'. I'm sure you realize that your perceptions are incapable of verifying that any supernatural power you may have been in contact with was in fact the creator God of the Bible. A much lesser spirit would be capable of making you feel loved and awesome and free you from your addictions. It doesn't take the power to turn stars into flamingoes to pull off what you're describing. One could argue that it's achievable by altered brain states, no paranormal invtervention required. It's the one promise any religion can keep: if you believe, then you'll find 'evidence'. However, the nature of true evidence is that it leads someone who is initially skeptical to believe; religion turns it around because it has hit on the technique of getting potential recruits to convert themselves by convincing them that to give whatever religion they're selling a fair chance, they have to try believing it first and then getting the evidence. It's really very brilliant.

The things I listed as evidence are not the basis of my faith. They are simply what got me in the door. God gives me daily revelation. It would take an omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being to work what He has wrought in my life. God gives a general revelation in His creation of His eternal power and Godhead, so that everyone is faced with His existence, and a special revelation of His Son Jesus Christ. My faith is based on the tangible and experiential relationship I have with Jesus Christ. That's what Christianity is about. My faith isn't based on feelings; that isn't faith, that is emotionalism. It is based on knowing God personally.

You also seem to indicate that Christianity was invented, like a conspiracy. Even skeptical historians believe that the apostles were convinced that Jesus rose from the dead. Therefore, according to your theory, they would have had to accidently create this ingenuous brainwashing tool that you postulate. Doesn't seem very likely, does it?

(February 6, 2012 at 12:07 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: So, converts to other religions (not to mention various self-help programs) can make similar claims. Where does that leave you and your 'evidence'?

As I said, it's not the basis of my faith, but I do think its pretty remarkable. People spend tens of thousands of dollars on psychologists and self-help programs over years of time to achieve the same results I did (or never) in a few months with no effort, and that with a few different issues at the same time.

"After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst."

I'd like to see the original text on this. "Might be" is a modal idea, which employs the subjunctive for possibilities which have not been realized. Perhaps it does merely hinge on J just kicking the bucket, but that sort of thing is interesting in its layering.


"The catholic church is not christian by any stretch of the imagination."

Since Baptist and Lutheran pastors, Protestant ministers and other priests have frequently been implicated in sexual abuse against minors, methinks I smell the scent of no true Scotsman here.

(February 6, 2012 at 4:41 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Right. Its about forgiveness and redemption and thats how they hook you. Soon they will mold you to fit the cult and if you dont give in to the other changes then you are "ignoring gods love and forgiveness"

If it was REALLY about forgiveness, then he would have forgiven us with no strings attached.

There is no central organization to Christianity, and no conspiracy. You are free to worship and follow Christ the way you are called to. It is about forgiveness, but if you reject the one through whom the forgiveness comes, you reject the forgivness along with Him. All God asks from us is to turn from sin and stop doing evil, and follow Him.

(February 6, 2012 at 8:54 pm)brotherlylove Wrote: Notice the key word there? "Fulfilled"

Yes but it seems your too stupid to see the words till all be which means it hasn't. Either way, I am not gonna argue the Yahweh book of tall tales with you since to do so is utterly stupid as is believing it to be gospel truth.

Quote:When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost

And his last words according to Matthew and Mark (or whomever wrote those gospels) were "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthan", according to Luke (or whover wrote that gospel) were "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." Why should any thinking human believe those fables when they can't even be bothered to agree on that and VERY MANY other points? Honestly, believing in obvious fiction is a sign of mental illness.