(March 20, 2012 at 5:12 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 4:10 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:They are not.

Then why do they spend so much time trying to refute it?

Not all do.

Those who do only defend what they have been taught. They know what they argue is right, yet they may not understand what or why they argue what they do.

It's like riding a bike for the first time. Once you learn how to ride you want to show everyone even if you are not good at it. Those who tend to Argue, are the one who are just starting to learn what is it they believe.

So you believe stuff just because someone told you it, without caring for the why or wherefore?

(March 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote:

Quote:Getting fast and loose with the definition of evolution aren't you. (at least in the way biologists use it)

Time is the only missing element that separate these two processes, and because the bible does not give a time frame on how long Eve "evolved" we are not even sure that separates the two processes.

Quote:No where in scripture does does it say "good" is always complete.

Quote:Secondly, Evolution doesn't have an end product, we are as much a transition as the human species before us.

Hence "good does not mean complete.

Quote:Thirdly, As a matter of logic, why would an omnipotent creator NEED to evolve anything.

seriously? Everything in the Christian's life is a matter of evolution/change. Look at life itself. What living organism is "born" as in it's finished state.

The problem here is the perception of "logic" is based on a Roman Catholic interpretation of God Rather than a biblical view of Him.

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(March 20, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Faith No More Wrote: [quote='Drich']
Simply put "we" take the account of Creation in Genesis and marry it with the known fossil record. For instance Creation Happened as recorded, but where most assume a very limited time frame from the creation of man and the fall from grace. we insert the 900 trillion billion years or whatever the new number is that explains the existing fossil records.

Eden is well defined paradise bordered by 4 rivers, it was a paradise where Man made in the image of God resided. Everything outside of those rivers progressed and evolved at whatever the going rate was.
Everything in the garden or at least Man (Created in the Image of God) was created to be what man was about 5000 years ago.

That is when "Created in the Image of God Man." first intermingled with descended from apes man, that you all seem to be so keen on. This explains Cains wife, the cities and all of the "other people" atheists believe to be proof of inconsistencies in the genesis account.

Remember outside of the 7 days of creation, the Genesis account only focuses on what happens in the Garden of Eden until the fall of man. This does not mean everything outside of the boarders of eden, (the rest of the earth) ceased to exist.

Does it hurt when you bend over that far backwards? You are just inventing assumptions to try and salvage a story that has clearly been fabricated by people with limited understanding of the history of the human race. Unless of course you have proof for any of these assumptions.

Absolutly! we have proof in the Genesis account and we have "proof" in the existing fossil record.
Proof of the creation account and Proof of Evolution.

(March 20, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 1:13 am)Faith No More Wrote: Why is it that creationists are so adamant that god couldn't have created them through evolution?

They are not.

I think there's some confusion here. Creationism is the doctrine that all life was created pretty much as it is now and the most evolution that has occurred has been within the kinds (which seems roughly analogous to taxonomic families such as canines). I'm getting the feeling that this isn't what you mean by creationism.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:02 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I read it, and I will admit, it's an apologetic that I haven't heard before - which doesn't dissuade me from thinking it's bullshit.

Probably because I have not published it yet.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote:

Quote:Getting fast and loose with the definition of evolution aren't you. (at least in the way biologists use it)

Time is the only missing element that separate these two processes, and because the bible does not give a time frame on how long Eve "evolved" we are not even sure that separates the two processes.

Quote:No where in scripture does does it say "good" is always complete.

Quote:Secondly, Evolution doesn't have an end product, we are as much a transition as the human species before us.

Hence "good does not mean complete.

Quote:Thirdly, As a matter of logic, why would an omnipotent creator NEED to evolve anything.

seriously? Everything in the Christian's life is a matter of evolution/change. Look at life itself. What living organism is "born" as in it's finished state.

The problem here is the perception of "logic" is based on a Roman Catholic interpretation of God Rather than a biblical view of Him.

---

(March 20, 2012 at 5:01 pm)Faith No More Wrote: [quote='Drich']
Simply put "we" take the account of Creation in Genesis and marry it with the known fossil record. For instance Creation Happened as recorded, but where most assume a very limited time frame from the creation of man and the fall from grace. we insert the 900 trillion billion years or whatever the new number is that explains the existing fossil records.

Eden is well defined paradise bordered by 4 rivers, it was a paradise where Man made in the image of God resided. Everything outside of those rivers progressed and evolved at whatever the going rate was.
Everything in the garden or at least Man (Created in the Image of God) was created to be what man was about 5000 years ago.

That is when "Created in the Image of God Man." first intermingled with descended from apes man, that you all seem to be so keen on. This explains Cains wife, the cities and all of the "other people" atheists believe to be proof of inconsistencies in the genesis account.

Remember outside of the 7 days of creation, the Genesis account only focuses on what happens in the Garden of Eden until the fall of man. This does not mean everything outside of the boarders of eden, (the rest of the earth) ceased to exist.

Does it hurt when you bend over that far backwards? You are just inventing assumptions to try and salvage a story that has clearly been fabricated by people with limited understanding of the history of the human race. Unless of course you have proof for any of these assumptions.

Absolutly! we have proof in the Genesis account and we have "proof" in the existing fossil record.
Proof of the creation account and Proof of Evolution.

You count genesis as proof that the world was created?

(March 20, 2012 at 4:57 pm)tobie Wrote:

Quote: Eden is well defined paradise bordered by 4 rivers, it was a paradise where Man made in the image of God resided. Everything outside of those rivers progressed and evolved at whatever the going rate was.
Everything in the garden or at least Man (Created in the Image of God) was created to be what man was about 5000 years ago.

You still believe this, despite the evidence of modern humans ( homo sapiens sapiens ) living way before 5000 years ago? Catal Huyuk, Damascus, Jericho, Byblos and Sidon are all cities inhabited by humans which were founded 800+ years before humans apparently existed, according to the biblical timeline.

Appearently you do not understand the explaination I gave. My account accounts for "man decended from monkeys) Perhaps you should read it again with an opener mind

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(March 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm)tobie Wrote: You count genesis as proof that the world was created?

We are here is proof enough for that.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:No where in scripture does does it say "good" is always complete.

Your use of the word complete implies an end product. Maybe you should stop using it.

You failed to respond to your use of the word Evolve when talking about creating Eve from Adam. It was almost criminally misused.

[quote='NoMoreFaith']Thirdly, As a matter of logic, why would an omnipotent creator NEED to evolve anything.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm)Drich Wrote: seriously? Everything in the Christian's life is a matter of evolution/change. Look at life itself. What living organism is "born" as in it's finished state.

You did not answer answer the question and you assume an end product again when using finished.
An Omnipotent god has no need for the mechanism of evolution. We observe organisms are born, and we understand the function of natural selection.
What does God need of natural selection and evolution.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:22 pm)Drich Wrote: The problem here is the perception of "logic" is based on a Roman Catholic interpretation of God Rather than a biblical view of Him.

Catholicism has nothing to do with it. Your concept does not appear to be based on any major interpretation, but thats alright, its simply as invalid as the other interpretations.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:28 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 4:57 pm)tobie Wrote:

Quote: Eden is well defined paradise bordered by 4 rivers, it was a paradise where Man made in the image of God resided. Everything outside of those rivers progressed and evolved at whatever the going rate was.
Everything in the garden or at least Man (Created in the Image of God) was created to be what man was about 5000 years ago.

You still believe this, despite the evidence of modern humans ( homo sapiens sapiens ) living way before 5000 years ago? Catal Huyuk, Damascus, Jericho, Byblos and Sidon are all cities inhabited by humans which were founded 800+ years before humans apparently existed, according to the biblical timeline.

Appearently you do not understand the explaination I gave. My account accounts for "man decended from monkeys) Perhaps you should read it again with an opener mind

There are a few flaws in this argument.
1) How did Adam and Eve, who had just been kicked out on their arses from eden, become the dominant species over the city building monkey-descended humans?

2) If this is the case, then the two species will have intermingled. Yet somehow, we are still exactly the same as the species of human in Damascus etc.

Quote: Tobie wrote: You count genesis as proof that the world was created?

Drich wrote: We are here is proof enough for that.

How are we proof that the world was created?

(March 20, 2012 at 4:05 pm)Drich Wrote: I understand that. my question asks how that works, or Why does the process of evolution somehow cancel out the idea of a creator?

It doesn't. For example, it doesn't refute a creator of the cosmos who didn't tamper with biological evolution or a creator that wanted to make it look as though species evolved naturally or a creator who only gave a nudge to chance here and there to guide evolution.

(March 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Why do Atheist believe evolution cancels out creationism?

Because creationism is essentially the teaching that natural evolution is a false account of the origin of species.

(March 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Because i do not see anything in the bible that says doesn't.

I'm thinking you're not really a creationist. Are you more of a theistic evolution person?

(March 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Actually,that is the position of mainstream Christendom. It is only the loopy young earth creationists who believe otherwise.

Yes, which is not the position of creationists, young earth or old.

(March 20, 2012 at 5:28 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm)tobie Wrote: You count genesis as proof that the world was created?

We are here is proof enough for that.

I am here. Therefore, with the conclusion that I exist, God, must also exist.

GREAT FUCKING LOGIC.