How do atheists know what is morally right or morally wrong? Is morality cultural, gut feel, are there any basic principled you can use? Opinions?

"Where do atheists get their morality from?"

Same place as you do. A combination of cultural upbringing, empathy for others, desire for societal acceptance and other similar factors. As any other social species, humans demonstrate tolerance for co-operative members of the group and abhorrence for those who abuse and manipulate the group. That's why we applaud someone for helping an old lady across the road and lock up someone who mugs that old lady for her pension. In less enlightened times, people who violated the social mores for personal gain would have been punished by death or banishment from the group. This still happens in what we in the so-called civilised world (and America) might consider less enlightened nations, and most notably in the animal kingdom among other social species.

Any good to you?

We use exactly the same thing you Christians really use despite the thick coat of muddy delusions you put on it - human experience. But we:

1. Are honest and hard nosed about it.

2. Make far, far better use of it.

(August 30, 2012 at 11:51 pm)Chuck Wrote: We use exactly the same thing you Christians really use despite the thick coat of muddy delusions you put on it - human experience. But we:

1. Are honest and hard nosed about it.

2. Make far, far better use of it.

What do you mean by make better use of it? I don't know what that means.
I like your avatar, it reminds me of the Cambrian explosion, something I'm rather fond of.

(August 31, 2012 at 12:07 am)Atom Wrote: I like your avatar, it reminds me of the Cambrian explosion, something I'm rather fond of.

Looking forward to seeing your fondness expressed in some future thread.

I think the shape of bananas is a much better argument against evolution the the CE

(August 30, 2012 at 11:51 pm)Stimbo Wrote: "Where do atheists get their morality from?"

Same place as you do. A combination of cultural upbringing, empathy for others, societal acceptance and other similar factors. As any other social species, humans demonstrate tolerance for co-operative members of the group and abhorrence for those who abuse and manipulate the group. That's why we applaud someone for helping an old lady across the road and lock up someone who mugs that old lady for her pension. In less enlightened times, people who violated the social mores for personal gain would have been punished by death or banishment from the group. This still happens in what we in the so-called civilised world (and America) might consider less enlightened nations, and most notably in the animal kingdom among other social species.

Any good to you?

I can't disagree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I agree with this idea I think you said - that animals put each other to death or banish each other for violating social mores for personal gain. Most animals don't seem to have social mores so much as patterns of reactions. Some more intelligent social animals do seem to have something like primitive culture.

---

(August 31, 2012 at 12:16 am)idunno Wrote: I think the shape of bananas is a much better argument against evolution the the CE

OK, you got by attention. The shape of bananas?

(August 30, 2012 at 11:39 pm)Atom Wrote: How do atheists know what is morally right or morally wrong? Is morality cultural, gut feel, are there any basic principled you can use? Opinions?

Yes, for atheists, morality is about desires, which are about emotions/feelings. Like the other animals, all our impulses are driven by emotional goals. In theory, we can use reason and science to find the best way to satisfy those emotional goals. But ultimately it still falls to an individual's subjective emotions to decide what we actually do.

Whether atheists maintain cultural norms depends on their political leanings: conservatives value tradition because they desire stability, liberals can't wait to tear down tradition because they desire freedom. It's not clear what direction atheism as a movement is headed.

This emotion-driven model of human behaviour (sometimes called the Belief-Desire model) was advocated by philosophers like David Hume, Bertrand Russell, Epicurus, Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, and apparently even Aristotle.

Note, even Christians follow this model: they seek emotional rewards in heaven, and feel the love of fellowship and God. They are as equally hedonistic (for want of a better word) as atheists.

Here are two modern day advocates of emotion-driven morality:

Jonathan Haidt: The Five Moral Foundations (skip to 4:40 if in a hurry)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs41JrnGaxc#t=320s

Richard Carrier: Is happiness the Goal of Morality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctfh3O7ofl0

(August 30, 2012 at 11:39 pm)Atom Wrote: How do atheists know what is morally right or morally wrong? Is morality cultural, gut feel, are there any basic principled you can use? Opinions?

The Golden Rule predates religious morality. It has been used by social animals (including man) for thousands of years.

Tsze-kung asked, saying, "Is there one word which may serve as a rule of
practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not Reciprocity such a
word? What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."

— Confucius, Analects XV.24

(August 31, 2012 at 12:16 am)Atom Wrote:

(August 31, 2012 at 12:16 am)idunno Wrote: I think the shape of bananas is a much better argument against evolution the the CE

OK, you got by attention. The shape of bananas?

lol, sorry it is a joke


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4