At the end of the day, this was an attack against cities known to have large numbers of civilians. I can't in good conscience support such an act of terrorism.

(September 15, 2012 at 1:51 pm)Tiberius Wrote: At the end of the day, this was an attack against cities known to have large numbers of civilians. I can't in good conscience support such an act of terrorism.

You don't have to. You don't have to support Vietnam, the Gulf War or any other morally dubious act performed by a governments military either.
They'll do it if they feel its in their best interests whether people support it or not. The peoples voice is only as effective as its government allows it to be.
They'll let you talk about it, they'll let you protest while they do it and they'll even let you speculate about it disapprovingly afterwards.
They don't care.

(September 15, 2012 at 2:17 am)greneknight Wrote:

(September 14, 2012 at 8:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: But it wasn't and the Japs were hanging by their balls for months prior to the atomic bomb.

Sure, you may have had individual acts of nuttiness, but hell...we get that here in the 21st century.

How come Shell B gave kudos to this post and she doesn't take objection to your use of "Japs" but I just used it once (even when I didn't know it was derogatory) and she excoriated me?

Well, Shell B, to make amends, you can give me a reputation and I'll be pleased as pie.

Ha ha! You seem surprised greneknight. Double Standards. (...and although I personally wouldn't have used the term, you were correct to point out her double standards here).

I'm aware I don't have to. I'm just stating my position in this debate. Regardless of how "necessary" people seem to think it was, I view it as an act of terrorism due to the targets being cities rather than military installations. Indeed, most of the Japanese military were elsewhere, anticipating an invasion.

There is a reason why those nukes are still to this day the only nukes ever launched against a country during a war. It's because we realised how much of a mistake it was to use them. Nukes cannot be controlled; they will destroy much more than is intended, and they leave behind deadly radiation that spreads, killing more and more people who weren't even initial targets.

(September 15, 2012 at 2:21 am)Minimalist Wrote: 15,000+ posts gives some street cred. Shel and I go way back.

Keep posting and someday you may get into the club.

( I also use the phrase "towel-heads" when pissed at muslims. )

I find that suggestion fundamentally offensive.
Pretending he'd actually be considered for membership is just animal cruelty.

(September 15, 2012 at 2:23 pm)A Theist Wrote: Ha ha! You seem surprised greneknight. Double Standards. (...and although I personally wouldn't have used the term, you were correct to point out her double standards here).

Kudos is not given out just for posts you agree with. It can be given out for various reasons (i.e. making a good point within a post, or for presenting a point well). These do not require agreement with the entirety of the post. I've given you kudos for posts and I haven't agreed with all of what you've said.

Shell explained why she gave Min kudos; he made a good point, and regardless of his use of language, that deserved recognition in her eyes.

(September 15, 2012 at 2:26 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 15, 2012 at 2:23 pm)A Theist Wrote: Ha ha! You seem surprised greneknight. Double Standards. (...and although I personally wouldn't have used the term, you were correct to point out her double standards here).

Kudos is not given out just for posts you agree with. It can be given out for various reasons (i.e. making a good point within a post, or for presenting a point well). These do not require agreement with the entirety of the post. I've given you kudos for posts and I haven't agreed with all of what you've said.

Shell explained why she gave Min kudos; he made a good point, and regardless of his use of language, that deserved recognition in her eyes.

Your point's taken Tib and I understand what you're saying. I've also done that very thing with you even though I didn't agree with entirety of your posts either. In fact, as far as I see, I don't think I've read one of your post's that doesn't make good points.....but, based on what I'm reading here there's no question that greneknight's point is valid. Yes. I agree with it as well. I think he desrves the Kudos.

...but clearly Shell didn't think it did. Isn't it up to her who she gives kudos to?

Which point? Geren makes lots of points and I don't think I disagreed with all of them. I wasn't withholding kudos from him for using the world "Jap." I was withholding kudos because he clearly has very little knowledge of the subject. He also says he is very young, so I applaud him for his efforts.

Now, if you have something to add other than "hehe, that girl that I keep pretending is a Democrat said something I think I can laugh at," go for it. If not, fuck yourself.

(September 15, 2012 at 2:24 pm)Tiberius Wrote: There is a reason why those nukes are still to this day the only nukes ever launched against a country during a war. It's because we realised how much of a mistake it was to use them. Nukes cannot be controlled; they will destroy much more than is intended, and they leave behind deadly radiation that spreads, killing more and more people who weren't even initial targets.

Don't worry, I'm sure they're working on cleaner methods of mass destruction. The reason no-one uses nukes to vie for supremacy is fear. If there wasn't the fear of retaliation with a similar type of weapon, if there was but one nation with weapons of this kind they would use them to dominate their neighbours with little hesitation.
It is not for such environmentally conscientious reasons as you suggest. Time and again it has been demonstrated that power is more important to a nation than its people or even its planet.
It is fear of retaliation that staves off this outcome, not environmental prudence.