Quote:Police and experts say this new generation of young fascists is potentially far more dangerous and reckless than their older peers. "Today a neo-Nazi can eat Turkish kebabs and still go out and beat up immigrants," said journalist Johannes Radke, who has reported on the German far-right for more than a decade.

"They say, 'We'll let everyone do whatever they want as long as they're a Nazi at heart.'"

Headquartered in the down-at-heel western industrial city of Dortmund, a new group known as the Autonomous Nationalists AN.L is at the forefront of this transformation. They share the hard-core xenophobia of older cadres in the far-right, but their appearance and tactics are those of a dynamic, Internet-savvy youth movement. They wear stylish running shoes and expensive brand name windbreakers and communicate with each other via Twitter. The use of English slogans at protests, for decades taboo in far-right circles, is widespread. "They see themselves as the avant-garde of the Nazi scene," Radke said. "They're much more professional than some drunk, dim-witted skinhead - and more dangerous."

There are signs the campaign may be working. On September 1, a date neo-Nazis mark to commemorate Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939, the only visible banners were those urging fascists to leave town. Lamp posts were newly painted with a special anti-adhesive to deter far-right vandals from defacing them.

A message has been displayed on top of Dortmund's landmark U-Tower - a 1920s-era skyscraper crowned with an illuminated letter "U" and giant TV screens.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/1...0S20121011

after the recent terror attack the goverment is attempting to outlaw the npd - wich is the cornerstone out of wich all major fashist movements here spawn.
The young generation might be more reckless - by giving up earlyer nazi sterotyps and cultural characteristics. They pose with usualy left wing symbols and are (invanely) trying to enter a "intelectual" debate.
But generaly I must insist that we germans are better of than most other countries. The UK and Germany are the only 2 countries in europe wich dont have extrem right wing or eaven fashist movements in their parlament.
Just look at Hungary, specificaly at the Jobbik.
Or read this quote by finish right wing extremist Timo Soini:

Quote:"What Greece needs now is not a understanding democratic sociaty, but it`s old militaryjunta, wich inforces law and rolles over those protesters with tanks."

(October 11, 2012 at 11:35 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: They pose with usualy left wing symbols and are (invanely) trying to enter a "intelectual" debate.

Yes, they do that in America as well.............. I am surprised to hear the German public is aware of the neo nazi's existence, unlike America, where even our Senators think, they all died out after World War 2

What do the Swiss have?

Do they not have the support, or are they banned?

(October 11, 2012 at 11:35 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: The UK and Germany are the only 2 countries in europe wich dont have extrem right wing or eaven fashist movements in their parlament.

Hmmm, Portugal doesn't have a fascist seat on the parliament. We do have a shit load of fuckwits there anyhow. We do have an extreme right wing party, but it doesn't have enough votes for a seat. They are dumbasses anyway.

You know, if we ever really unite europe, this bloody continent, surely won't be by dictatorship.

it`s not hard to see the difference between this


and this:


while yours pose with symbols ours try to distance themselves from the old image and to create a new "democratic" image.
There is a reason why we have anti-totalitarian laws here, wich forbid the forming of organisations wich have as a goal, the overthrowal of the republic. These laws are inforced specialy by "the bureau for the protection of the constitution" (Verfassungsschutz).
running arround a german street - demanding the violent overthrowal of democracy can get you between 10 to 15 years in jail.
And this is not just concerning fashist organisations but every single totalitarian movement.
But eaven if you officialy pose as democratic, and it turns out that the core of your movement is undemocratic - you`ll end up with trouble.
A guy like Anjem Chaudery would end up in jail in germany.
some people might say that this hinders free speech - i think free speech has it`s limits.
And considering how democratic the german sociaty is, and how little public support radical movements have here, some of my friends, and to a extend I, would go so far as to say that we are the only european nation wich has learned the lessons to be learned out of world war 2.
Just look at Hungary! The Jobbik had a 12% vote in the last hungarian election. remember this is a officialy antisemetic and fashist party!

During the second world war, especialy catholic countries such as Hungary, Croatia, Austria, Italy, Ukrain, and various other countries supported fashism.
Whilest germany tried to learn the lessons out of it`s history, these nations simply (sometimes in a grotesk way( austria claims to be the first official victim of fashism)) blame everything on germany and neglegt that their countries had fashist movements that participated in not only the war, but also to some extent in crimes against humanity.
And today the "ghosts" of these movements still spook arround in these countries.
Yes it was mainly germanys fault! that is undeniable!

But neighter can one denie how, especialy in catholic europe fashism was widespread:

Historic Examples of fashism outside of nazi germany between 1930 to 1945:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Paveli%C4%87

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueshirts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rexism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratnik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fascist_Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Antonescu

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_H%C3%A1cha

and especialy imbarresing for the catholic church, and oftern denied by them:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

(October 11, 2012 at 11:55 am)Stue Denim Wrote: What do the Swiss have?

Do they not have the support, or are they banned?

The Swiss have some laws against neo-nazi groups, but hate speech laws are strictest in Germany

Quote:In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement of popular hatred") is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years imprisonment. Section 130 makes it a crime to publicly incite hatred against parts of the population or to call for violent or arbitrary measures against them or to insult, maliciously slur or defame them in a manner violating their (constitutionally protected) human dignity. Thus for instance it is illegal to publicly call certain ethnic groups "maggots" or "freeloaders". Volksverhetzung is punishable in Germany even if committed abroad and even if committed by non-German citizens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

How can 'free speech' have limits, and still be 'free'? It would be, by definition, 'limited speech', no?

So it's not that there is less support for these groups, it's that there are laws against them? Makes the results much less impressive to be honest.

And isn't the banning of undemocratic movements itself an undemocratic thing to do?

(October 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Hmmm, Portugal doesn't have a fascist seat on the parliament. We do have a shit load of fuckwits there anyhow. We do have an extreme right wing party, but it doesn't have enough votes for a seat. They are dumbasses anyway.

I honestly and shamefully have no idea on Portugal.
After the "Estado Novo" collapsed on the first of may 1974 - did the following democratic goverment give a amnesty to the participants of the former regime such as the PIDE? If yes or no, is there a current political party in Portugal wich resembels "Salazars political herritage"?
and if yes are they as present in the portugese sociaty as in Spain, Italy and Hungary?

(October 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm)LastPoet Wrote: You know, if we ever really unite europe, this bloody continent, surely won't be by dictatorship.

I dont think that eighter, nor do I believe that a fashist movement will gain power within the next years (exept for maybe Hungary). But it is a truely shamefull site that more than sixty years after the 2nd world war, 38 years after the last "old fashist" regimes fell (Franco, Spain, Salazar, Portugal) and 12 years after the last "neo-fashist" european dictator fell (Slobodan Milosevic, Serbia), with currently only one dictator left in europe (Lukashenko, Belarus).
we still have fashist movements.

---

(October 11, 2012 at 12:46 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: How can 'free speech' have limits, and still be 'free'? It would be, by definition, 'limited speech', no?

So it's not that there is less support for these groups, it's that there are laws against them? Makes the results much less impressive to be honest.

There is hardly any support for them, because otherwise they would be in parlament. Actualy, at almoust every neo-fashist event in germany the turnout of counterprotesters is larger than the fashists.
Yes, our country is very democratic.

free speech ends if you incite violents, i grew up with this law, and i have always agreed with it.

(October 11, 2012 at 12:46 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: And isn't the banning of undemocratic movements itself an undemocratic thing to do?

no it is not, it is to protect the democracy. i dont have tolerance with intolerance.

An enemy of free speech who'd take away rights from others and reserve them solely unto themselves does not deserve said rights.

Anymore than a murderer who'd take away an other life truly deserves life like some entitlement.

We as a society often try not to sink to said murderer's level by killing them, but we do know they ardently are not entitled to life after they took another.

No more than people who plan to overthrow the government deserve their own special government.

There's a difference between being entitled to something and society being kind enough to allow you to have it even when you don't deserve it.