I am interested in batting ideas around and engaging in serious discussion in the hope of maybe sowing some understanding about my journey so far and taking it further through the fine tuning I'm sure they will get here . My name is not Mark but I felt that it was an appropriate tag here. I'm Irish so have no issues if you feel your points need the support of colourfull phrasing. It may be just me but I feel that good debating and logical reasoning doesn't need this, but each to their own. I am a returnee to the church after 20+ years non-practicing but i never became athiest in that time. I couldn't as I have always been exposed to the spiritual both through others and my own experiences. This should give you some idea of where i'm at.

Howdy.

My names Mark, welcome not Mark

Welcome Mark 13:13
Great username/tag/scripture.
Glad you're here.

(December 30, 2012 at 6:49 pm)Insanity x Wrote: My names Mark, welcome not Mark

Welcome. Allow me first to point out that the context in which your name was taken is something I consider something pretty disgusting and vapid. Jesus was basically saying that all the great works of men were going to be torn down in the end of times; our works mean nothing, Jesus is the only thing worthwhile, and that Jesus knew he was going to cause, through them, division and hardship between nations, cities, brothers, parents, and children, on his account. It then went on to state that the end of days, which will come at a time unpredictable to Jesus who is actually God who is omnipresent and omnipotent and apparently graced with the foresight necessary to witness such tremendous events like famine and war *snicker* is unfortunately at a loss to detail the specifics of this incredibly vague end times that will supposedly come. And he doesn't know if it's going to happen in winter or not. MAybe it will, or it may not, and you have to "pray" to god that it DOESN'T cuz if so, it's going to suck really bad because you're not going to be allowed to go get any of your possessions...but he WILL be kind enough to cut those days short! Yes indeed, he's very beneficent to his most faithful followers; he can't stop it from happening in the dead of winter but he CAN shorten those days to not be AS bad. What a guy.

And then will come false prophets who will somehow be capable of wielding God-Magic, something that nobody can actually do but Jesus, supposedly, according to the bible...but they'll do it! They're not god, but they'll perform god-magic. Even though that's been stated to NOT be possible. Oh and then the sun will just go out like a light that's been switched off, and "the moon shall not give off its light."

...Yeah, that's a bit superfluous to add in, given that without the sun to give off light, the moon couldn't give off any light...since it doesn't generate its own light. That's something the bible seemed to REALLY struggle with, huh? It kept making the weird mistake in assuming that the moon generated its own light rather than it being reflected off of it from the sun...

But anyway, then the stars will fall from the sky. Yeah, that's right. The celestial bodies themselves will "fall," as if stars are suspended above the earth rather than being suspended in a void with no relation whatsoever to the earth. It was VERY specific on that point, that it was the STARS themselves. Not an allusion to meteors or anything like that, but the celestial bodies themselves will fall from the "sky" onto earth. This keeps in tune with the "earth is flat, universe revolves around it" idea that so plagued the world until Galileo, by the way. And then the "heavens will shake." Yes. The sky will shake. Do ho ho ho...

But anyway, yes, supposedly this was all going to happen during the generation of Christ's life, since he then later said "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Given that "generation" was meant to imply the same thing as it means now in the contextual form in which it exists in the bible, he basically was saying that all these world-ending events were going to happen before everyone in that age-group generation had died. Sure doesn't seem like it happened, though. The other far more broad version was "this age of men," which is DELIGHTFULLY vague, broad, and completely non-descript. There's the claim it was meant to refer to Jerusalem's destruction but I'm not treading down the road of relying on the written word of a bunch of men in their late 80s remembering the EXACT YEAR someone said a particular sentence, and instead I think I might chalk that all up to convenience of placement and move along.

But yeah, again, Jesus, who is God, tells them that NONE SHALL KNOW WHEN IT TAKES PLACE! Except for God. And therefore Jesus. Who just told them that he has no idea when it's going to happen and that they should pray it doesn't happen in winter.

So yeah, welcome to the forums, and your user-tag is just...*shakes his head.* It's a microcosm of what is wrong with Christians.

Oh and then Jesus later showed what a humble and modest "hippy" he was. Woman comes in with a jar of perfume and sprinkles it over Jesus, and when the individuals at the table are like "WHAT THE FUCK?! We were going to sell that and give the money to the poor!" Jesus goes "Oh there'll always be poor people, but I am only here for a few years, so stop giving her a hard time for doting on ME. She's getting me ready for my ridiculously stringent needs for burial, but those poor people will be starving and hungry and cold for many more years to come! She's a good person for wasting it on me!"

Yes, Jesus. Fuck the poor, YOU'RE the important one, you and your burial are so much more important than the poor you keep demanding everyone give up everything to help. Yes. Everyone but YOU must give everything up for them, Jesus, I gotcha.

Jesus was a hypocrite and so are his followers. You will be no different.

Well you have to admit that all the works of man will be torn down and turned to nothing if there is nothing beyond this universe which is destined to cold death or reversal to new big bang. So your eloquence was ultimately a pointless waste in a pointless history of a pointless accident called humanity which is ultimately to doomed by all that science offers. I prefer to have hope in more.

(December 30, 2012 at 8:03 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Well you have to admit that all the works of man will be torn down and turned to nothing if there is nothing beyond this universe which is destined to cold death or reversal to new big bang. So your eloquence was ultimately a pointless waste in a pointless history of a pointless accident called humanity which is ultimately to doomed by all that science offers. I prefer to have hope in more.

What you mean is that you prefer to live in hope of an eternal future rather than to bask in the wonders of the moment.

But surely an infinite future renders any era of time and experience just as meaningless as a finite one.

Jesus christ Creed, at least let the man take his coat off when he walks into the house before showering him with the good stuff.

Oh yeah, welcome. Doubt we'll see eye to eye on many things in all honesty, though I'm interested in these 'experiences' of yours.

(December 30, 2012 at 8:12 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Jesus christ Creed, at least let the man take his coat off when he walks into the house before showering him with the good stuff.

Oh yeah, welcome. Doubt we'll see eye to eye on many things in all honesty, though I'm interested in these 'experiences' of yours.

I'd be happy to tell you of my experiences with what I felt was supernatural but given the tone with some in here lol i'd rather do it privately and at another time as its getting late now. Maybe in time I may feel "safe" to open them up to the ridicule of others here but not at moment and not until I feel they are at least friends even if we disagree