(January 4, 2013 at 4:14 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: And of course even if all the functions usually associated with the mind being located in the brain

Transplanted organs impart memories onto recipients
http://www.naturalnews.com/028537_organ_...ories.html

Mystery on top of mystery.

Ah yes, that bastion of scientific knowledge, "Natural News." (The NaturalNews Network is a non-profit collection of public education websites.The NaturalNews Network is owned and operated by Truth Publishing International, Ltd., a Taiwan corporation.)

Wikipedia Wrote:Body memory [aka cellular memory] is a hypothesis that the body itself is capable of storing memories, as opposed to only the brain. This is used to explain having memories for events where the brain was not in a position to store memories and is sometimes a catalyst for repressed memory recovery. These memories are often characterised with phantom pain in a part or parts of the body – the body appearing to remember the past trauma. The idea of body memory is a belief frequently associated with the idea of repressed memories, in which memories of incest or sexual abuse can be retained and recovered through physical sensations. The idea is pseudoscientific as there is no known means by which tissues other than the brain are capable of storing memories.

Quote:Pearsall argues that the brain is not the only centre of human intelligence. The heart, he says, carries equal importance. He posits that the body is made up of cells that transmit “information.” Cells communicate this information to each other electromagnetically. Thus a transplanted organ can continue to broadcast old information, something like amputees’ experience of pain in lost limbs. Phenomena like these suggest cells have memories.

(Cited as a for the article cited by Mark 13:13)

Quote:

Quote:In 1997, a book titled A Change of Heart was published that described the apparent personality changes experienced by Claire Sylvia. Sylvia received a heart and lung transplant at Yale–New Haven Hospital in 1988. She reported noticing that various attitudes, habits and tastes changed following her surgery. She had inexplicable cravings for foods she had previously disliked....

Among the consultants for the book were Dr. Paul Pearsall, PhD (author of "The Heart's Code: Tapping the Wisdom and Power of Our Heart Energy" and many more books) whose name appears as an author of a paper co-written with Dr. Gary E. Schwartz, PhD (author of many books including "The Afterlife Experiments: Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death") and Dr. Linda G. Russek, PhD (co-author of many books including "The Living Energy Universe: A Fundamental Discovery that Transforms Science and Medicine" with husband, Schwartz).

Claire Sylvia's book and some of the books by the PhDs mentioned above have all been endorsed by that giant of scientific reason, Deepak Chopra. Some of the books written by the aforementioned doctors have also been co-authored by Chopra.

(, "Cellular Memory: Memory Transfer Between Organ Transplants")

The Skeptic's Dictionary Wrote:Collecting stories to validate a hypothesis is a risky business. Stories of transplant recipients that don't seem to exhibit memories from their donor don't prove that they aren't there but those stories are selected out anyway. Stories that do seem to exhibit donor memories don't prove cellular memory but collecting a bunch of them could lead one to see a pattern that isn't really there. Collecting such stories may simply prove that the researcher is good at confirming his or her bias. The validation process becomes more complicated when one considers that many organ recipients will give in to magical thinking and "feel" the presence of the deceased donor within them. The recipient's subjective validation may be driven by a desire to prove the belief or to please the donor's family, the doctor, or a medical attendant who may encourage the belief. Furthermore, now that the idea of cellular memory is being promoted in books and on television (the Discovery Health Channel, for example), there will be a problem of making sure that stories aren't contaminated.

Science should be moving us forward, bringing about a better understanding of how phenomena work. Scientists like Gary Schwartz and Paul Pearsall introduce mysticism and magical thinking into the mix, which is very attractive to many New Age healers because it supports their spiritual leanings. However, such thinking does not advance science; it takes it back to an earlier time, a time when the world was dominated by magical powers. It dresses that world in scientific-sounding jargon about energies and quantum physics, but it does little to advance our understanding of anything and it will continue to fail to convince the scientific community at large, which has a higher standard of evidence, of its speculations.

---

A transplant is a profound experience and the human mind is very suggestible. Medically speaking, there is no evidence that these reports are anything more than fantasy.

(Cellular Memory: The Skeptic's Dictionary)

(January 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm)apophenia Wrote:

(January 4, 2013 at 4:14 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: And of course even if all the functions usually associated with the mind being located in the brain

Transplanted organs impart memories onto recipients
http://www.naturalnews.com/028537_organ_...ories.html

Mystery on top of mystery.

Ah yes, that bastion of scientific knowledge, "Natural News." (The NaturalNews Network is a non-profit collection of public education websites.The NaturalNews Network is owned and operated by Truth Publishing International, Ltd., a Taiwan corporation.)

Wikipedia Wrote:Body memory [aka cellular memory] is a hypothesis that the body itself is capable of storing memories, as opposed to only the brain. This is used to explain having memories for events where the brain was not in a position to store memories and is sometimes a catalyst for repressed memory recovery. These memories are often characterised with phantom pain in a part or parts of the body – the body appearing to remember the past trauma. The idea of body memory is a belief frequently associated with the idea of repressed memories, in which memories of incest or sexual abuse can be retained and recovered through physical sensations. The idea is pseudoscientific as there is no known means by which tissues other than the brain are capable of storing memories.

Quote:Pearsall argues that the brain is not the only centre of human intelligence. The heart, he says, carries equal importance. He posits that the body is made up of cells that transmit “information.” Cells communicate this information to each other electromagnetically. Thus a transplanted organ can continue to broadcast old information, something like amputees’ experience of pain in lost limbs. Phenomena like these suggest cells have memories.

(Cited as a for the article cited by Mark 13:13)

Quote:Among the consultants for the book were Dr. Paul Pearsall, PhD (author of "The Heart's Code: Tapping the Wisdom and Power of Our Heart Energy" and many more books) whose name appears as an author of a paper co-written with Dr. Gary E. Schwartz, PhD (author of many books including "The Afterlife Experiments: Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death") and Dr. Linda G. Russek, PhD (co-author of many books including "The Living Energy Universe: A Fundamental Discovery that Transforms Science and Medicine" with husband, Schwartz).

Claire Sylvia's book and some of the books by the PhDs mentioned above have all been endorsed by that giant of scientific reason, Deepak Chopra. Some of the books written by the aforementioned doctors have also been co-authored by Chopra.

(, "Cellular Memory: Memory Transfer Between Organ Transplants")

The Skeptic's Dictionary Wrote:Collecting stories to validate a hypothesis is a risky business. Stories of transplant recipients that don't seem to exhibit memories from their donor don't prove that they aren't there but those stories are selected out anyway. Stories that do seem to exhibit donor memories don't prove cellular memory but collecting a bunch of them could lead one to see a pattern that isn't really there. Collecting such stories may simply prove that the researcher is good at confirming his or her bias. The validation process becomes more complicated when one considers that many organ recipients will give in to magical thinking and "feel" the presence of the deceased donor within them. The recipient's subjective validation may be driven by a desire to prove the belief or to please the donor's family, the doctor, or a medical attendant who may encourage the belief. Furthermore, now that the idea of cellular memory is being promoted in books and on television (the Discovery Health Channel, for example), there will be a problem of making sure that stories aren't contaminated.

Science should be moving us forward, bringing about a better understanding of how phenomena work. Scientists like Gary Schwartz and Paul Pearsall introduce mysticism and magical thinking into the mix, which is very attractive to many New Age healers because it supports their spiritual leanings. However, such thinking does not advance science; it takes it back to an earlier time, a time when the world was dominated by magical powers. It dresses that world in scientific-sounding jargon about energies and quantum physics, but it does little to advance our understanding of anything and it will continue to fail to convince the scientific community at large, which has a higher standard of evidence, of its speculations.

---

A transplant is a profound experience and the human mind is very suggestible. Medically speaking, there is no evidence that these reports are anything more than fantasy.

(Cellular Memory: The Skeptic's Dictionary)

I know they are all a bit random all i'm trying to highlight as the answer to the mind is still far from clear. I knew the concepts existed and just grabbed a few references; they are not mean't to be treated for anymore than that unless we want to explore every theory. Another poster above seemed to be working on the basis its all been sorted and the for me to ask the Question where do thought come from just showed my stupidity.

(January 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: I know they are all a bit random all i'm trying to highlight as the answer to the mind is still far from clear. I knew the concepts existed and just grabbed a few references; they are not mean't to be treated for anymore than that unless we want to explore every theory. Another poster above seemed to be working on the basis its all been sorted and the for me to ask the Question where do thought come from just showed my stupidity.

So, in order to show that we don't have it all sorted, you present bogus evidence. Fascinating. And yes, it does show your stupidity.

(January 4, 2013 at 4:14 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: And of course even if all the functions usually associated with the mind being located in the brain

Transplanted organs impart memories onto recipients
http://www.naturalnews.com/028537_organ_...ories.html

Mystery on top of mystery.

Dude - "The Hands of Orlac" is not a documentary.

The only mystery is why you seem to feel the need to inject mystery where there is none, or grotesquely inflate what little mystery there may indeed exist, and even that motivation is no mystery.

(January 4, 2013 at 6:56 pm)apophenia Wrote:

(January 4, 2013 at 5:37 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: I know they are all a bit random all i'm trying to highlight as the answer to the mind is still far from clear. I knew the concepts existed and just grabbed a few references; they are not mean't to be treated for anymore than that unless we want to explore every theory. Another poster above seemed to be working on the basis its all been sorted and the for me to ask the Question where do thought come from just showed my stupidity.

So, in order to show that we don't have it all sorted, you present bogus evidence. Fascinating. And yes, it does show your stupidity.

its late so Whatever I can't be arsed chasing down very top end evidence to make a minor point , you win.