(January 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: But I have seen that when discussing religion with atheists, there is a grudge against that god, some are even cursing.

Let it be changed to

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: But I have seen that when discussing religion with atheists, there is a grudge against that god, some are even insulting.

To be honest, that is just as bad. Why should I care if someone is insulted by something that I don't intend to be insulting? If I mean to be insulting, fair enough... but if someone takes offence at something that is not meant to be insulting, why should I care?

(January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: We Yanks have improved on it immensely from what the Brits cobbled together out of German, French and Latin.

(January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:As far as I understand english, cursing is not only (may the fires of hell vanquish you forever), but also (fuck face) is considered a curse.

English is a very varied language, thank you. We Yanks have improved on it immensely from what the Brits cobbled together out of German, French and Latin.

Yeah, it's a weird language. I learnt the american version, but I knew a british guy who lived in cairo ; I couldn't understand shit when I spoke to him, he annoyed me a lot also by correcting some words.

I think the american version is easier & more logical.

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: But I have seen that when discussing religion with atheists, there is a grudge against that god, some are even insulting.

Oy vey!

(January 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm)frankiej Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Let it be changed to

To be honest, that is just as bad. Why should I care if someone is insulted by something that I don't intend to be insulting? If I mean to be insulting, fair enough... but if someone takes offence at something that is not meant to be insulting, why should I care?

I have stated in previous topic, that deep inside the idea of the elements (i.e reaching the atom), nobody is sure where the atom came from.

So we have concluded that some people believe it's an odd, others believe it's a creator, there is actually no solid evidence for your or my point of view.

You should care because it's a "what if" condition. For me, I'm interested in evolution because it's a "what if", that's why I'm opening up topics here, because I'm interested in the other explanation.

I thought sticking to your point and ignore anything else is an extremist hobby, mmmm ?

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(January 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: But I have seen that when discussing religion with atheists, there is a grudge against that god, some are even insulting.

Oy vey!

Romantic !

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(January 24, 2013 at 12:00 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: Thanks for sharing your opinion.
But I have seen that when discussing religion with atheists, there is a grudge against that god, some are even cursing.

I think it's also a hatred for his existence ; that the idea, of such god existing is painful to some people (not all).

Hell for example is one classic argument about why some people hate god.

Again, you completely miss the point. These people you are talking with are not atheists.They are believers who are pissed at god. Atheists do not believe god exists and therefor cannot hate or be mad at him.

Let me ask you this: why do you hate invisible pink unicorns?

Back to the atom example.
Where did the atom come from ?

some say : god
others say : odd

But I get your point, and ask you to imagine if the other one is correct.

If there is a god, what is your problem with him ?

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(January 24, 2013 at 12:06 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 11:34 am)AtlasS Wrote: The next part indicates that I'm insane : )
Thank you very much for the reply.

If religious people are insane for having subjective experiences then I'm insane as well because my own brain produces subjective experiences. If I believed that my experiences were objective I'd think I'd seen ghosts and a water spirit rising from a lake along with sensing those Earth energies which New Agers talk about.

This is another reason why I'm interested in neuroscience - I'm curious about what causes my brain to do this kind of thing.

Hmm, it's weird to some aspect.
For example, I had an accident when I was 15, to this day I think god saved me that day. But why did I thought that he saved me ?

Why did I feel like it was a supernatural experience ?
Please tell me if you found anything interesting about this.

Yeah I want to ask you : )
are NDEs under this category ?

(January 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 11:47 am)Minimalist Wrote: First off, you need to provide evidence that your god or any of the myriad gods produced by the human imagination are real. Next you need to define the characteristics of that god.

Until you can prove your fantasies are real there is no point in discussing it.

Religion, OTOH, has been the curse of mankind since the first primitive man wondered why an animal he stabbed went from living to dead. Frankly, it has all been downhill from there with various shamans, prophets, popes, priests, rabbis, trying to make money out of providing an "answer."

As H. L. Mencken said: "What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an imaginary hell."

I really missed your comments, Mcrubbish, I'm going to give you some Kudos for that !!

But as usual, your comment doesn't have any real material, it's more like a speech against religion

It is true that some people used religion to make money (to be honest ; a lot, not just few people).

Actually, if you can't comprehend that we are not going to accept your god because you say so - or even worse, because you read about it in an old book - then there is no basis for discussion. We are like white bishop v black bishop in chess. We are never on the same square. All we can do is talk at each other.

I find the notion of a supernatural being who is whatever you want him to be just a bit on the childish side. Honestly, children usually outgrow Santa Claus but the religious still think they have an invisible friend who will watch out for them.

In most cases such beliefs are harmless although we did have an instance the other day where the governor of Texas, Rick Perry ( who is an idiot ) told people to pray to stop school shootings. That kind of talk is dangerous because people will die while the ignorant "pray." More important, they won't even think of doing anything useful because they are already "praying."

Ask yourself why allah allows the islamic world to be bombed and strafed by infidels without lifting a finger to help you? And don't give me this Insh'allah crap. Insh'allah = shit happens.

(January 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm)frankiej Wrote: To be honest, that is just as bad. Why should I care if someone is insulted by something that I don't intend to be insulting? If I mean to be insulting, fair enough... but if someone takes offence at something that is not meant to be insulting, why should I care?

I have stated in previous topic, that deep inside the idea of the elements (i.e reaching the atom), nobody is sure where the atom came from.

So we have concluded that some people believe it's an odd, others believe it's a creator, there is actually no solid evidence for your or my point of view.

You should care because it's a "what if" condition. For me, I'm interested in evolution because it's a "what if", that's why I'm opening up topics here, because I'm interested in the other explanation.

I thought sticking to your point and ignore anything else is an extremist hobby, mmmm ?

I don't really know what that has to do with what I said...

(January 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Hmm, it's weird to some aspect., it's weird to some aspect.
For example, I had an accident when I was 15, to this day I think god saved me that day. But why did I thought that he saved me ?

Why did I feel like it was a supernatural experience ?
Please tell me if you found anything interesting about this.

Yeah I want to ask you : )
are NDEs under this category ?

I would be very interested in hearing why you thought it was a supernatural experience.

I'm very interested in NDEs as well. I've read the about the experiences which people on both sides use to prove or disprove continuation of something after death. The way I see it, the truth is currently unknown because nobody on either side of the argument has come back after being past the point of no return.

(January 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: English is a very varied language, thank you. We Yanks have improved on it immensely from what the Brits cobbled together out of German, French and Latin.

*boooo... hisssss....

(January 24, 2013 at 12:00 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: Again, you completely miss the point. These people you are talking with are not atheists.They are believers who are pissed at god. Atheists do not believe god exists and therefor cannot hate or be mad at him.

Let me ask you this: why do you hate invisible pink unicorns?

Back to the atom example.
Where did the atom come from ?

some say : god
others say : odd

But I get your point, and ask you to imagine if the other one is correct.

If there is a god, what is your problem with him ?
[/quote]

I don't know where the atom came from. However, my not knowing where it came from is in no way an argument for the existence of a god.

See, that is what science is about. If you don't know, you investigate. You ask questions. You do experiments. You FIND OUT where it came from.

Religion, on the other hand, would have us close our eyes and accept on faith that their god magically made it happen. It encourages us not to ask questions or investigate. In fact, it DEMANDS we not ask questions.

Disproving a given theory (say, big bang or particle physics) does not validate or make true your particular argument. This is called an argument from ignorance and is perhaps the most arrogant and egotistical ploy used by theists. It says, "I have disproven your idea and since I cannot think of a better idea, mine is therefore correct."

In other words, simply because I cannot prove where the atom came from, it doesn't mean that god made it. By saying that, you discount, out of hand, every other theory, idea, religion and thought, as well as those that have not yet been thought. you are are arguing the existence of your god out of IGNORANCE of other ideas.

So lets address the issue of my problem with your non-existant god. Lets look at a single example of the impossibilty of living up to his standards. The bible syas that your god is omnipotent. That means he created me and knew, beforehand, every decision, every move, every thought that I would have throughout my life. Therefore, he knew that I would be an atheist. Therefore, he knew I would go to hell for not believing. Yet, he created me anyway. Therefore, he set me up to fail by his own design and has no one to blame but himself for my failure.

If your god proved himself to me today, I would still not worship him in any way as he is a jealous, vengeful, spoiled little child who pisses and moans when he doesn't get his way.

Worship him because he is all powerful? No. That would be worship out of fear or authority and that, in my mind, completely defeats the purpose.