(January 24, 2013 at 12:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(January 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm)AtlasS Wrote: I really missed your comments, Mcrubbish, I'm going to give you some Kudos for that !!

But as usual, your comment doesn't have any real material, it's more like a speech against religion

It is true that some people used religion to make money (to be honest ; a lot, not just few people).

Actually, if you can't comprehend that we are not going to accept your god because you say so - or even worse, because you read about it in an old book - then there is no basis for discussion. We are like white bishop v black bishop in chess. We are never on the same square. All we can do is talk at each other.

I find the notion of a supernatural being who is whatever you want him to be just a bit on the childish side. Honestly, children usually outgrow Santa Claus but the religious still think they have an invisible friend who will watch out for them.

In most cases such beliefs are harmless although we did have an instance the other day where the governor of Texas, Rick Perry ( who is an idiot ) told people to pray to stop school shootings. That kind of talk is dangerous because people will die while the ignorant "pray." More important, they won't even think of doing anything useful because they are already "praying."

Ask yourself why allah allows the islamic world to be bombed and strafed by infidels without lifting a finger to help you? And don't give me this Insh'allah crap. Insh'allah = shit happens.

Good point. That's why I never liked religious debates ; I haven't seen any good comes out of such discussion.

But I'm different than the other crowed, Mcrubbish. At least give me that. I'm not trying to convince, rather than "discuss".

About us muslims being bombed. First of all carrying a label says you're a muslim doesn't mean you're. How do we know bullshitters from real believers ? we can't actually.

Even the believers are not promised with anything on earth. Not because I believe in god, it means that I'm beating america in an open warfare.

The point of this life, is to get hammered, tested, until you die.
Actually, believers are more prone to attacks & disasters.

You need to understand this : Muslim =/= Angeles fight with us from the skies.

Muslim = a person who believed in god without any direct intervention from god. This person might get raped, killed, burned, he also might win, become rich.

It doesn't matter.

Quote:At least give me that.

You're definitely a couple of rungs up the ladder from most of the zombie-like muslims who come here virtually chanting.

Quote: First of all carrying a label says you're a muslim doesn't mean you're.

The No True Scotsman fallacy? Come on. They're all down on their knees 5 times a day praying to the same god as you do. I am very ecumenical on this point. Anyone who wants the title of jew, xtian or muslim can have it. It is hardly a badge of honor as far as I am concerned anyway.

Quote:It doesn't matter.

It certainly doesn't. Why, it is almost exactly the same as if there were no allah at all, isn't it?

Atlas, what do you know about God that we don't, and how do you know it?

We already know there's about as many versions of God as there are people who believe in him/her/it/them. Even a God who is super-nice and doing the best it can under trying circumstances won't get my belief without a good reason to think it's real.

(January 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Yeah, it's a weird language. I learnt the american version, but I knew a british guy who lived in cairo ; I couldn't understand shit when I spoke to him, he annoyed me a lot also by correcting some words.

I think the american version is easier & more logical.

The phrase you are looking for is "dumbed down"

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(January 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Back to the atom example.
Where did the atom come from ?

some say : god
others say : odd

But the nature of this magical being "god"tm is inconceivable that it came about by any means known or conjectured, but the creation of the atom and associated quantum particles is seem and replicated in devices like the Large Hadron Collider and elsewhere.

Quote:If there is a god, what is your problem with him ?

If there is a donald duck what is your problem with him?

Do you see why your question was nonscence.

Quote:The phrase you are looking for is "dumbed down"

We took out all those extraneous "u's" colour, humour, etc.

Just getting into this thread and sorry in advance if I repeat a point already made.

I just find it curious you use the metaphor for the cup. This analogy underscores how the beginning of wisdom is the phrase "I don't know". It is only when you admit ignorance that you can learn. Believing you already know "The Truth" closes you off to learning how your understanding of the truth may be wrong.

So between the believer and the non-believer, who has the full cup?

Saying "I don't know" is counter-intuitive. We are wired to fear the unknown. We prefer a bad answer or even a made up answer to none at all. Life presents us with uncertainty and death is entirely unknown. Religion offers easy answers. Hence its popularity.

It is the non-believer who rejects these easy answers and admits what is unknown. We are the ones with the empty cups. What evidence do you offer for our consideration?

AtlasS Wrote:some say : god
others say : odd

When you say 'odd,' do you mean that some people believe life is the result of probabilities being played out?

All this talk of cups just reminds me of....


As for hating god.... well, I must be so full of hatred for all the ~2800 gods that mankind has managed to worship thus far... not counting pre-history.
Wait, no I don't hate any of them.... oh well, so much for that theory... I'm glad I don't have to hate so many entities that haven't proven themselves... heck, it's *almost* like they were made up, or something... go figure!

Quote:2 girls
1 cup

That doesn't sound pornographic.

If God existed as he is depicted in the Old Testament, he would be worse than every tyrannical dictator in history, far more cruel and despotic, jealous and petty, capricious and vague, manipulative and hateful, than any of them. He hates reason and demands total sycophancy.

There is nothing, at all, good about God.