Where is this house that no man has tread even unto this day?


1 Samuel 5

King James Version (KJV)

5 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.

2 When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.

3 And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the Lord. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.

4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the Lord; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.

5 Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.

(February 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Where is this house that no man has tread even unto this day?


1 Samuel 5

King James Version (KJV)

5 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.

2 When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.

3 And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the Lord. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.

4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the Lord; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.

5 Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.

When the term "to this day" is used in the Old Testament, it refers up until the time that the particular verse was written. Since 1 Samuel is part of the D or Deuteronomist source which comprises a lot of the books Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings. I would hypothesis that the date it was written down was quite late, possibly as late as the Hellenistic period.

Ok Sure if god you're saying god's magic that prevented anyone from walking there got weak and faded away sometime around 400 bc or so.. that's cool.

Who Killed this guy Dagon by cutting off hid head and his hands? Was it god? Sounds so much like something a barbaric man would do. It's not to much like a god is it?

What's amusing about this is that "Dagon" was a Sumerian diety from the mid 3'd millenium. He may have been booted around for a while in the ANE but the Philistines did not arrive in Canaan until the mid-12th century BCE. Dagon would have been somewhat long in the tooth by then.

It is doubtful that the Philistines, who were Hellenic, would have known about Dagon prior to landing so we are asked to believe that they made landfall and went "native." Seems unconvincing but then so much of the OT is nothing but horseshit.

(February 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Where is this house that no man has tread even unto this day?


1 Samuel 5

King James Version (KJV)

5 And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.

2 When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.

3 And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the Lord. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.

4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the Lord; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.

5 Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.

In the house of Dagon in Ashdod. Dagon being the merman god of the philistines. (The passage is saying to those SAMUEL is speaking to [OT jews] that no one since that incident till the day Samuel recorded this message) worshiped that god anymore.

(February 9, 2013 at 10:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: What's amusing about this is that "Dagon" was a Sumerian diety from the mid 3'd millenium. He may have been booted around for a while in the ANE but the Philistines did not arrive in Canaan until the mid-12th century BCE. Dagon would have been somewhat long in the tooth by then.

It is doubtful that the Philistines, who were Hellenic, would have known about Dagon prior to landing so we are asked to believe that they made landfall and went "native." Seems unconvincing but then so much of the OT is nothing but horseshit.

Dagon was a major god in what is now the Levant being mentioned in various texts from 2500 BCE onwards. The Syrians, Phoenicians and Canaanites all worshipped Dagon. In the Cannanite religion Dagon was the god of grain.

Since the Philistines had been long been assimilated into local Canaanite population by the time the Old Testament was written. The people of the old Philistine city states could have had Dagon as their chief god, like the people in Judea had Yahweh as their chief god and so forth. I would not be surprised if the people in Judea worshipped Dagon as one of their gods, Baal and Asherah certain were.

So it would not be surprising in my opinion if the Old Testament writers, the Priestly "reformers" decided to smear as foreign or alien gods such as Baal, Asherah, Chemosh, Moloch and Dagon in order to get people to convert to the Yahweh cult. Although the Priestly reformers merged El the chief god in the Canannite pantheon with Yahweh for some reason.

(February 10, 2013 at 12:54 am)Drich Wrote: ..
In the house of Dagon in Ashdod. Dagon being the merman god of the philistines. ..

So clear this up for me please, did the jewish god perform the killing of this other god, by cutting off his head and hands?

Can gods be killed in the manner of Medusa? If I sneaked a sword into heaven, could I kill god by loping off his head?

Here's an article, right on point, but it exists only in abstract. I tried Google Scholar but it is not there either. The abstract, however, points up many of the main points.

http://www.academia.edu/1716285/_Digging..._I_Ashdod_

Quote:"Digging for Dagon: A Reassessment of the Archaeological Evidence for a Cult of Philistine Dagon in Iron I Ashdod"
by Jeff Emanuel
Scholars have generally accepted 1 Sam 4:1b–7:1’s portrayal of Philistine cult in the Iron Age I as being centered on the god Dagon and his temple at Ashdod, despite three major limitations: the likely late date of the Deuteronomistic history’s authorship; the dubious veracity of its historical accounts; and the Bible’s status as the only Bronze or Iron Age text which indisputably refers to the god Dagon in a Canaanite geographical context. In the light of these limitations, as well as of the late 20th century excavations at the Philistine cities of Ashdod, Tel Qasîle, and Tel Miqne/Ekron, and the ongoing excavations at Ashkelon and Tel es–Safi/Gath, the time appears ripe for a reassessment of the available material evidence for a Philistine cult of Dagon at Iron I Ashdod. Through a marshaling of archaeological evidence from the aforementioned sites, it will be shown that, though cultic structures are known from multiple Philistine sites, no indisputable evidence for a temple of any kind has been found in Iron I Ashdod. Further, the only deity for which indisputable evidence exists in Philistia at this time is a fertility goddess with Aegean and Cypriot affinities, who is unlikely to be the Dagon of the biblical account. Though the absence of material support for the Deuteronomistic history’s portrayal of Philistine cult in the Iron I is not itself incontrovertible evidence of the absence of Dagon himself, such a discrepancy between literary and material evidence should reinforce the importance of evidence–based archaeo–historical analysis of literary information, particularly when the alternative is assuming the correctness of elements of a narrative whose overall veracity is generally in doubt.

(February 10, 2013 at 1:11 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(February 10, 2013 at 12:54 am)Drich Wrote: ..
In the house of Dagon in Ashdod. Dagon being the merman god of the philistines. ..

So clear this up for me please, did the jewish god perform the killing of this other god, by cutting off his head and hands?

Can gods be killed in the manner of Medusa? If I sneaked a sword into heaven, could I kill god by loping off his head?

Instead of me trying to establish the philistine culture in your mind and explain what and why they did what they did and what and why they didn't what they didn't do. Here is a commentary. READ IT, and THEN if you have any follow questions Based on the Commentary. I can answer those. (Or point you to another 10 pages if I think your trying to be intentionally obstinate.)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentar...ar=1Sa_5_4

---

(February 10, 2013 at 2:12 am)apophenia Wrote:

The dagger!


you set the whole thing up you should have finished it!!

At least i beat Stimbo to the punch line this time.. or do they have the clapper 'over there?'