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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 10, 2013 at 1:26 pm
I think it was discovered. As chuck points out it is one thing in a long list of things that are explanatory of the way reality works. We didn't invent it and then suddenly circles maintained that relationship. It was the other way 'round. I think a more interesting ratio is Phi and its cousin the fibonacci sequence. The fact is that none of those things really exists in nature but they are a mathematically perfect mean to describe sets of things found in nature.
For example a Nautilus shell only mostly follows the golden ratio, but it is close enough to be fascinating to me. Same can be said of the whorls of branches around an evergreen. I don't see it as a sign of a designer so much as a nod to the fractal nature of the universe.
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 10, 2013 at 1:57 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm by Angrboda.)
I'd have to go with false dichotomy. At least in my understanding of the terms. It wasn't discovered in the sense that it exists independently of us such that it can be "found". Nor was it invented, in the sense of being caused to come into being by an agent. I wrote on the subject once before, but looking at what I wrote, I didn't do a very clear job of explaining it, so I'm not going to refer to that prior explanation.
Maybe I'll come back to it later.
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm
If Darwin says that blacks are soon going to die off and sick children in the hospital should die off because they are all the weaker of the species in "the descendants of man" then it is that what you guys believe too?
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 10:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'd say both, the concept was discovered, the system of communicating that concept was invented. Without both there is no "pi" in our experience. The concept that pi refers to predates the existence of the system, and without the system the concept is unintelligible.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:28 pm
If 2 molecules banged together and exploded and created gas that clumped together that created planets... is it not the same as saying that any explosion that happens can create mass that is bigger than it was in its original state before it blew up?
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:30 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'd say both, the concept was discovered, the system of communicating that concept was invented. Without both there is no "pi" in our experience. The concept that pi refers to predates the existence of the system, and without the system the concept is unintelligible.
But then where does pi reside for it to have been discovered?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm
As a relationship between the circumference and diameter of a circle.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: As a relationship between the circumference and diameter of a circle.
Aha.. and where can the circle be found?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:42 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2013 at 10:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Look up sometime when the sun is shining. Watch ripples in a still pool.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Was pi invented or discovered?
March 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm
(March 12, 2013 at 10:42 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Look up sometime when the sun is shining. Watch ripples in a still pool.
Having studied some heavy maths for the last 3 years (and counting...) I'm going to have to start splitting hairs:
Yes, those two things appear to look like a circle, but neither are a true representation of the concept of infinite points a distance x from the centre, because the nature of the concept makes it impossible to bring the concept into the physical world.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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