That proof may work for Islam because they hold to Divine Command, but it does not work all the time. God does not have to have infinite factors affecting his decisions. I would say that God has one factor for decisions in creation, the question, "What system will do the most good?".

(April 6, 2013 at 4:10 pm)Tex Wrote: "What system will do the most good?".

Religion has shown consistently throughout history that it is willing to forgo with morality in the name of its god.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:10 pm)Tex Wrote: That proof may work for Islam because they hold to Divine Command, but it does not work all the time. God does not have to have infinite factors affecting his decisions. I would say that God has one factor for decisions in creation, the question, "What system will do the most good?".

If you believe that 'good' is what God desires and 'evil' is what he does not desire, then the question "which system will do the most good?" is merely another way of saying "what does God feel like doing?".

Neither of you two understood what I wrote.

Maelstrom Wrote:Religion has shown consistently throughout history that it is willing to forgo with morality in the name of its god.

"Religion" doesn't do anything because it's a concept made up by the mind. If you meant to say something truthful, you meant to say that history has shown that people are willing to forgo morality in order to accomplish their desires. Also, this has nothing to do with the topic.

Ryantology Wrote:If you believe that 'good' is what God desires and 'evil' is what he does not desire, then the question "which system will do the most good?" is merely another way of saying "what does God feel like doing?".

If you didn't know what "Divine Command" meant, you should have ask here or asked google. Divine Command says that whatever God commands is good. If he changes his mind and commands the opposite, it's still good. The command by God is what makes the thing good. Islam follows this philosophy. Christianity does not. God doesn't just go by what he feels like doing. God goes by what he is. Usually, we call this his "nature". God didn't create a moral code for us, he is the moral code for us. When God created the universe, he was looking to see how much good he could do.

Before there is the comment "Well there are natural disasters so god didn't does exist", God set those up intentionally. Joel quotes that bible verse (Isaiah 45:7) all the time trying to say God created evil (as opposed to disaster, like I've explained). Those disasters are ultimately to cause good. The hurricane or earthquake itself is actually good too (balancing the world's pressures) and the damages caused are just (including death, even without a promise of eternal paradise). At the very least, a reality check that things cannot be lent on for security, but the only security is found in God.

(April 7, 2013 at 12:02 am)Tex Wrote: "Religion" doesn't do anything because it's a concept made up by the mind.

If religion does not do anything, why do people not live without it? Oh, wait, people do.

"If religion does not do anything, why do people not live without it? Oh, wait, people do."

The comment barely makes sense, but I think I understand what you're trying to insult. I'll pretend it was good.

I AM SO WOUNDED! YOU TERRIBLE FIEND, YOU! I'M LEAVING THIS BOARD AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

Better?

Anyway, if you ever find religion, I want a picture with him. I bet he's old because he's been around forever. He's also the cause of every thing bad. We can hang religion together after the picture. I mean, who wants a picture with a dead guy? Then we'll play golf.

Tex Wrote:If you didn't know what "Divine Command" meant, you should have ask here or asked google. Divine Command says that whatever God commands is good. If he changes his mind and commands the opposite, it's still good. The command by God is what makes the thing good. Islam follows this philosophy. Christianity does not. God doesn't just go by what he feels like doing. God goes by what he is. Usually, we call this his "nature". God didn't create a moral code for us, he is the moral code for us. When God created the universe, he was looking to see how much good he could do.

You're not getting rid of the Euthyphro Dilemma here. Does "God's nature" determine what's good, or is what's good "God's nature"? Not only is this even more arbitrary than regular DCT, but it actually fails to give any reason why we should even follow "God's nature" for morality because it seems as if it was out of his control what his own nature was going to be. DCT suggests that God chose certain commands for whatever arbitrary reason, but here you're saying God just... is? It makes less and less sense the more you think about it.

(April 7, 2013 at 12:02 am)Tex Wrote: If you didn't know what "Divine Command" meant, you should have ask here or asked google. Divine Command says that whatever God commands is good. If he changes his mind and commands the opposite, it's still good. The command by God is what makes the thing good. Islam follows this philosophy. Christianity does not.

Yes, but there is more
God's commands are usually logical, beneficial to humans
also God created some instincts in us to feel better doing what he commands

That's why Islam/Mohamed said: everyone is born as Muslim, then his parents make him Jewish or Christian or others.

Any Islamic rule is logical and can be beneficial to humanity and nature

(April 7, 2013 at 8:55 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: That's why Islam/Mohamed said: everyone is born as Muslim, then his parents make him Jewish or Christian or others.

Any Islamic rule is logical and can be beneficial to humanity and nature

Everyone is born Muslim?!?!?!?

Bwah haha hah..... what a crock of shit.

What about the people that were born before your paedophile prophet came on the scene?

I swear to you, if you isolate a child from all belief, he will be atheist or make up some religion.

---

(April 7, 2013 at 12:02 am)Tex Wrote: Neither of you two understood what I wrote.

Maelstrom Wrote:Religion has shown consistently throughout history that it is willing to forgo with morality in the name of its god.

"Religion" doesn't do anything because it's a concept made up by the mind. If you meant to say something truthful, you meant to say that history has shown that people are willing to forgo morality in order to accomplish their desires. Also, this has nothing to do with the topic.

Ryantology Wrote:If you believe that 'good' is what God desires and 'evil' is what he does not desire, then the question "which system will do the most good?" is merely another way of saying "what does God feel like doing?".

If you didn't know what "Divine Command" meant, you should have ask here or asked google. Divine Command says that whatever God commands is good. If he changes his mind and commands the opposite, it's still good. The command by God is what makes the thing good. Islam follows this philosophy. Christianity does not. God doesn't just go by what he feels like doing. God goes by what he is. Usually, we call this his "nature". God didn't create a moral code for us, he is the moral code for us. When God created the universe, he was looking to see how much good he could do.

Before there is the comment "Well there are natural disasters so god didn't does exist", God set those up intentionally. Joel quotes that bible verse (Isaiah 45:7) all the time trying to say God created evil (as opposed to disaster, like I've explained). Those disasters are ultimately to cause good. The hurricane or earthquake itself is actually good too (balancing the world's pressures) and the damages caused are just (including death, even without a promise of eternal paradise). At the very least, a reality check that things cannot be lent on for security, but the only security is found in God.

What if your god tells you to murder everyone in the world? Is this morally good? No! Of course not! You know that and almost everyone else does! This feeling is the work of millions of years of evolution.