Very good point Leo.

I also would have checked a "both" box, because I see both sides of the debate. I slightly favour pro-choice, based on arguments I have heard, but I respect peoples right to hold their own opinion. I see it as none of my business. When I was more vocal and mean-spirited I would say "how many pregnant 16-year olds are protesting abortion clinics?". But I understand why the pro-lifers are offended, and some of the drawbacks of a pro-abortion society.

I always loved the spin in this one too. Neither group is anti-anything. It is pro-life (geez, how can I be against life) and pro-choice (how can I disagree with that). I like to think of them as anti-life and anti-choice, to take the gleam off. It is a beautiful piece of manipulative bullshit to name the sides of that argument as such, isn't it?

The first rule is not to tell other poeple what to do though... so...

Thanks,
-Pip

The reason the father isn't taken into consideration is because he isn't carrying the baby for nine months. If you have never been pregnant or had a baby you can't possibly understand the huge burden you're asking a woman to bare by carrying that baby. Yes there is adoption which is a wonderful thing, but I can't imagine what it's like to just hand over a baby, even one I didn't want. It fucks with your head forever. I personally would get an abortion before giving up a baby and I have. I'm to selfish to give up my body and 9 months of my life for that. The only time the father should be taken into consideration is when the woman is in a committed relationship with him. Even then the end decision is hers.

(December 3, 2009 at 9:27 am)Pippy Wrote: I always loved the spin in this one too. Neither group is anti-anything. It is pro-life (geez, how can I be against life) and pro-choice (how can I disagree with that). I like to think of them as anti-life and anti-choice, to take the gleam off. It is a beautiful piece of manipulative bullshit to name the sides of that argument as such, isn't it?

Never thought of it that way. I like your point of view here.

Going along with Pippy's characterization of the sides, it should not come as a shock to anyone that I am "anti-choice".

(December 3, 2009 at 12:31 pm)binny Wrote: The reason the father isn't taken into consideration is because he isn't carrying the baby for nine months.

And should he be punished for that? Because basically you are denying his rights to raise a child by aborting his offspring just as much as you do yours. How is that in any way fair? Is it fair to the child to be aborted when if it were to be carried full term would be guaranteed a loving home? The way I see it there are 2 victims in that scenario.

Quote:The only time the father should be taken into consideration is when the woman is in a committed relationship with him. Even then the end decision is hers.

And what if the mother decides to keep the baby and the dad doesn't want any part of it?

Wow, "Do you support abortion?" I think it should be legal and rare so I guess I have a similar relationship to abortion as I do to chemotherapy; I think they should be legal but I would not consider myself to "support" either one. I am anti-abortion and pro-choice. I cannot answer the poll because neither option makes sense to me.

Leo raises some interesting points. I agree with Binny that the choice should ultimately be up to the mother about whether to abort the pregnancy or not, but I find her take on the situation very callous. I have a friend who impregnated a woman and that women aborted the pregnancy without even talking to him; her decision still haunts him to this day.

The callous man outlook on this would be to shift the burden of raising children wholly onto women. Poof, now women have all the control but men have no responsibility so if we get a woman pregnant we can just leave her, claiming that she could have gotten an abortion if she couldn't afford the child. I think this is the male equivelent of a women denying the man any input into the decision.

How do you compare a 9 month rollercoaster of emotions and rapid body changes to 18 years of fiscal responsibility? What a legal nightmare!

Rhizo

(December 3, 2009 at 12:50 pm)leo-rcc Wrote: And what if the mother decides to keep the baby and the dad doesn't want any part of it?

It isn't fair, but it all comes down to biology. Men are never going to be in a position to carry a child or give birth. A man can't understand. If the father doesn't want any part of raising a child then wear a condom or get a vasectomy. If he does want a child then find a woman who wants one too. If you don't agree with abortion don't put yourself in a position where you have to make that choice. And don't force someone else to make it either. It's a personal choice that is ultimately up to the woman. You guys may not think it's fair, but it is what it is.

It isn't fair, but it all comes down to biology. Men can't possible bear a child so children are a non-issue for men. If the mother doesn't want any part of paying for a child then use contraceptives or get your tubes tied. If she does want a child then find a man who wants one too. If you don't agree with abortion don't put yourself in a position where you have to make that choice. And don't force someone else to make it either. It's a personal choice that has nothing to do with the man. You gals may not think it's fair, but it is what it is.

Hmm, the above paragraph doesn't sound any more fair than Binny's paragraph. I wonder why?

Rhizo

If a mother can find a doctor to perform an abortion, she should be able to have one.

At any stage in pregnancy. A fetus is not a person until it pops out, and as such should not be afforded any 'rights'.

It's a personal medical choice, nothing more.

I refuse to answer the poll because it's to narrow. I am pro-choice because I believe a woman has control over her body, however I am not pro abortion. What do I mean by that? I think we should do everything we can to promote contraceptives and good countermeasures to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I have said this before, abortion is a very painful experience, and emotional hurtful to the mother. I think we should do everything we can to prevent that woman from making the choices that would lead to an unwanted pregnancies, but nevertheless abortion should always be available as a viable option because while we may reduce the need for abortions there will be times when it is necessary and we should never take away a woman's right to choose.

I said it isn't fair. Abortion is a decision for the individual. The woman has to carry the baby so the ultimate decision is hers. It should not be illegal regardless of anyone's personal views on the subject.
I've been pregnant twice. The first one I aborted because I thought it was the best thing to do in my personal situation. Thank goodness it was legal and I had the resources at the time. In my case the father agreed. Looking back on it I was careless and shouldn't have put myself in that position to begin with. The second time I chose to have the baby. Again I was careless, but my situation was different at that time. In that case the father agreed. I now have my tubes tied because I don't want any more children. That was my decision too.