(June 19, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The algorithm will go like that:
Prove God existence
Prove Possible God's models

Prove the authenticity & integrity of Quran
Prove the divinity of Quran
Then by default everything in it is proved

Those two green sentences aren't even close to be proven. Why are they green?

(June 19, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The algorithm will go like that:
Prove God existence
Prove Possible God's models

Prove the authenticity & integrity of Quran
Prove the divinity of Quran
Then by default everything in it is proved

Dear, there are large numbers of possible gods (who meet your criteria). There are Islamic versions which contradict your perception of God. There are Christian versions which correspond to your claimed characteristics. There are many many many options. You'd better prove the impossible God's models rather than proving the possible God's models !! And you should take into account that proving something to be logical or possible does not mean that it is proven to be right.

Even the mere assumption of God is not the unique option which your algorithm should lead to. There are much more options ... much more even than the God's versions themselves !!!

So your logic has nothing to do with:

1- proving the existence of Islamic God as a unique option or even as a probable option.

2- Proving the existence of a "traditional deity" itself.

So what can I do with your algorithm?? It is just proving that the Islamic God (the main characteristics mentioned) is a logical option. But, again, this has nothing to do with faith. I don't believe in the deistic god although he is logical. He is even more reasonable than the Islamic one.

You say that you can prove the divinity of Qur'an. I say that I can prove it is a human invention. Rhetorically, it is very beautiful and impressive if not translated. But scientifically it is primitive and full of mistakes. Arabic is my native language and I know what I am talking about.

Regards.

He believes he is using words too professional for us to understand

Quote:I think my words is too professional for common people to understand

Yet literally has the English skills of what I would expect from someone maybe 4 or 5 years old, the thread title which contains a blatant error could have been typed better by an 8 year old.

He tells you to forget about time, yet several parts of the proof go on to give detailed explanations of what his laws of time are, he then re defines time and makes up the word zime.

And don't bother to try and prove him wrong, if anything isn't islamic it's illogical, if anything is islamic but illogical it's a mystery.

(June 19, 2013 at 7:18 am)Simsim Wrote:

(June 19, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The algorithm will go like that:
Prove God existence
Prove Possible God's models

Prove the authenticity & integrity of Quran
Prove the divinity of Quran
Then by default everything in it is proved

Dear, there are large numbers of possible gods (who meet your criteria). There are Islamic versions which contradict your perception of God. There are Christian versions which correspond to your claimed characteristics. There are many many many options. You'd better prove the impossible God's models rather than proving the possible God's models !! And you should take into account that proving something to be logical or possible does not mean that it is proven to be right.

Even the mere assumption of God is not the unique option which your algorithm should lead to. There are much more options ... much more even than the God's versions themselves !!!

So your logic has nothing to do with:

1- proving the existence of Islamic God as a unique option or even as a probable option.

2- Proving the existence of a "traditional deity" itself.

So what can I do with your algorithm?? It is just proving that the Islamic God (the main characteristics mentioned) is a logical option. But, again, this has nothing to do with faith. I don't believe in the deistic god although he is logical. He is even more reasonable than the Islamic one.

You say that you can prove the divinity of Qur'an. I say that I can prove it is a human invention. Rhetorically, it is very beautiful and impressive if not translated. But scientifically it is primitive and full of mistakes. Arabic is my native language and I know what I am talking about.

Regards.

Thanks, but I told you this part is still to come
We are only discussing the proof an its conclusion
A creator/starter for the universe exists and he has so and so attributes.

Till now we are not talking about Islam, it is just logic (and science if applies)

(June 19, 2013 at 7:46 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote:

(June 19, 2013 at 7:18 am)Simsim Wrote: Dear, there are large numbers of possible gods (who meet your criteria). There are Islamic versions which contradict your perception of God. There are Christian versions which correspond to your claimed characteristics. There are many many many options. You'd better prove the impossible God's models rather than proving the possible God's models !! And you should take into account that proving something to be logical or possible does not mean that it is proven to be right.

Even the mere assumption of God is not the unique option which your algorithm should lead to. There are much more options ... much more even than the God's versions themselves !!!

So your logic has nothing to do with:

1- proving the existence of Islamic God as a unique option or even as a probable option.

2- Proving the existence of a "traditional deity" itself.

So what can I do with your algorithm?? It is just proving that the Islamic God (the main characteristics mentioned) is a logical option. But, again, this has nothing to do with faith. I don't believe in the deistic god although he is logical. He is even more reasonable than the Islamic one.

You say that you can prove the divinity of Qur'an. I say that I can prove it is a human invention. Rhetorically, it is very beautiful and impressive if not translated. But scientifically it is primitive and full of mistakes. Arabic is my native language and I know what I am talking about.

Regards.

Thanks, but I told you this part is still to come
We are only discussing the proof an its conclusion
A creator/starter for the universe exists and he has so and so attributes.

Till now we are not talking about Islam, it is just logic (and science if applies)

How is it logical that something outside of time has actions?

(June 19, 2013 at 8:00 am)paulpablo Wrote: How is it logical that something outside of time has actions?

When I said this statements is was about time as the relation between two events

An action outside of time is possible as long it is only one event (i.e. has no other events to relate to)

Going against Einstein's Theory of Relativity and Special Relativity.

I read some posts. All what can be said was already said over and over again. (Of course because we are talking about 45 pages )

I think all the arguments for God's existence don't work well. Also, to be honest, all the arguments which I read in my life against his existence are not convincing. But atheism for me is just the lack of belief for the lack of evidence. It is not the "belief" in the non-existence of God for you have nothing to have a belief in. So, until further notice, the possibility of God is the same possibility of that we live in an advanced computer made by other conscious beings whatever the hell this means. (This mainly has been said in this topic)

(June 19, 2013 at 8:35 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote:

(June 19, 2013 at 8:00 am)paulpablo Wrote: How is it logical that something outside of time has actions?

When I said this statements is was about time as the relation between two events

An action outside of time is possible as long it is only one event (i.e. has no other events to relate to)

So then god is not always outside of time? When he is impregnating virgins and turning sticks into snakes and so on?

I've stood idly long enough. Time to proof the true god. You listening, MS?

I shall prove The Dude's existence.

Trying to figure some necessary/definitive attributes for G
1. The Dude is the creator/initiator of the Universe
2. The Dude is unique
3. The Dude has actions (p)
4. The Dude is outside time, Dude must be one unit as if there are more than one entity time can be related to each other, but as time did not exist, then Dude is one UN-separated self-dependent unit
(The Eternal, The one, The self sufficient)
5. The Dude is outside and separate from the Universe
6. The Dude has a will; as if he didn’t then creating/starting the universe must be initiated from an external source which contradicts with the (proved) non-existence of time.
7. As Dude is unique and not similar to matter in the universe, he doesn’t have an image (an image is a reflection of light from objects; objects are constructed from molecules and atoms)


The only religion that gives a matching model for God is DUDEISM


Easy enough.

Consider yourself debunked, MS.