you know what, every time I see a Christian post on how and why god is real. I'm just gunna copy and paste this same argument.
you disagree on the bible contradicting? you can't disagree on that. Something like that is either true or not true. there is no inbetween. It is entirely a true or false choice. I will now show you a multitude of contradicting bible passages.

Psalms 149:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
is the abrahamic god a god of peace or war?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

now this one is from 2 gospels that were supposedly written by the same person. who was at the tomb?

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Is Jesus lesser than or equal to God?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Righteous live?

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

Jesus' last words

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Years of famine

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

God be seen?

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

Tempts?

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

Judas died how?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?

Before the cock crow - MAT 26:34

Before the cock crow twice - MAR 14:30

how many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

these are merely some of the few contradictions in the bible. I can name a plethora more, but then this post will be far to long. how can you say the bible doesn't contradict itself?

The bible contradicts itself deliberately. Those ancient goat herders were obviously a lot brighter than the average Joe nowadays.

(August 13, 2013 at 7:15 am)Brakeman Wrote: So why are you different that other christians that can hear his voice, others that have conversations with him?

God gives us what we can process. I don't think I could process a disembodied voice.

Quote:Some unknown christians wrote the bible and they had to hear god's vocal words to have been able to have written the books down without just making it up.

I think your thinking of Joseph Smith and mormonism.

The Christian new testament consists of a historical account of the life of Jesus via the gospels, and various letters written by the Apstoles to either a church or another person.

Quote: Why are you different than they? Why would god treat Drich differently than so many other christians?

Because God treats us all differently based on what we can process and comperhend. God is not a Hammer and Christians all nails. God is the Master craftsman who uses the exact right tool for the specific job.

Quote:You could argue that it is just not part of god's plan for him to talk to you, but that would seem unlikely, as there is so much for a real god to do these days. There's been a mighty big slump since the time of the ancient prophets..

says who?

(August 13, 2013 at 2:14 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 13, 2013 at 7:15 am)Brakeman Wrote: So why are you different that other christians that can hear his voice, others that have conversations with him?

God gives us what we can process. I don't think I could process a disembodied voice.

Quote:Some unknown christians wrote the bible and they had to hear god's vocal words to have been able to have written the books down without just making it up.

I think your thinking of Joseph Smith and mormonism.

The Christian new testament consists of a historical account of the life of Jesus via the gospels, and various letters written by the Apstoles to either a church or another person.

Quote: Why are you different than they? Why would god treat Drich differently than so many other christians?

Because God treats us all differently based on what we can process and comperhend. God is not a Hammer and Christians all nails. God is the Master craftsman who uses the exact right tool for the specific job.

Quote:You could argue that it is just not part of god's plan for him to talk to you, but that would seem unlikely, as there is so much for a real god to do these days. There's been a mighty big slump since the time of the ancient prophets..

says who?

Drich, I would very much like you to answer my question and prove to me that the bible doesn't contradict itself. i would like to see you try to respond to that. please don't cherry pick what you do and don't want to answer. If you do that, then i know that i am onto something.

(August 13, 2013 at 2:02 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The bible contradicts itself deliberately. Those ancient goat herders were obviously a lot brighter than the average Joe nowadays.

I am sure at the moment of ejaculation inside the goat, they did appear to themselves to be very bright indeed.

Why are you not a mormon?????


.

(August 13, 2013 at 1:52 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: But, I did ask an origins question.

Indeed you did. My point was if you truly understood the nature of what you were asking you would not have asked an orgins question.

Quote: You said that my comprehension was only limited by the questions I can think to ask.

Indeed.

Quote: You said that as long as I can ask the question, the answer would not be beyond my ability to comprehend.

No, I said you have the potential to be given an answer. Meaning you can get an answer but whether you accept it or not or even understand it or not is completely on you.

Quote: Let's see if you give me an answer that is beyond my human ability to comprehend...

Don't take this as an insult. But non comperhension can manifest itself as a pride. Meaning one is most likly to mock and dismiss what he/she does not completely understand. Now take that fact and pair it against your work and even the work of your peers against my own. Where do you see the greatest amount of mockery? And where do you see a line by line disection of the arguements levied against points that are made?

Quote:Unfortunately, I am a being whose comprehension of time is limited to my knowledge of it being linear.

Indeed, as are we all.

Quote:So, to posit an infinity is beyond my realm of comprehension.

Then break it down to it's simplest componets.
What it time? The measure of moments that seperate events.
The you ask How time is measured. At it'c core all time is based off of the earth's rotation around the sun.

Next can you imagine a point before the orgins of the creation/or what ever the current p/c term is that describes the beginning of the cosmos?

If yes then that span before there was anything was infinity past. because without anything to mark the passage of time, "Time" (The measure of moments that seperate events) can not exist, as we currently define it. take it in the other direction and you have infinity future. That is why the universal symbol of infinity is a sideway #8. It's not the the sideways #8 itself, as the #8 actually repersents time itself, but the perspective that allows you to see the complete passage of time.

being bound to linear time means we are on or occupy some part or portion of the figure 8, and can not see time (past present and future) in it's entirity. Being able to See the whole of time places out of the course of the figure 8 and far enough back to understand what he/she is looking at.

Quote:It is nothing more than conjecture to do so.

I disagree, for in the creation account and in other account there was a 'time' that the universe did not exist. And in both accounts there will be a 'time' where everything ceases to exist as we currently know it. outside these two goal posts is infinity.

Quote: I have no basis for an infinity, nor do I know what preceeded the big bang, so I am not able to make any claims of the sort. You, have done exactly that. When I ask how you know it to be true, your answer is that you inferred it from your interpretation of biblical texts.

If you truly seek a 'scientific understand' your 'objection' should actually be a question. "Why?" Why do you use the bible to support your arguement.

Quote:You ambiguously offer a scientific understanding of time to justify it, however, should I raise a scientific objection to causation, you are reduced to shrugging your shoulders, and telling me...what exactly? That God's ability is beyond my comrehension?

No. If this is your version of my "why question" I use the bible as my source because I am speaking of the God of the bible. If I speak of the God of the bible then I am bound by the bible to repersent The God it describes. May I suggest your next question be "How do you know the bible to be true."

Quote:I'm a/s/king you a question, and you're unable to give a good answer.

actually i gave a very Good answer. Just not the yes or no answer you were looking for.

Look at it again. God has no orgins, because He existed before everything orginated. Let's say the big bang/Creation was the beginning of everything period. The bible says God existed before that point in which time began. If God existed before that point in time where time began that would mean He did not have an orgin or beginning. Because again no 'beginning could have happened before anything was created.'

Because a beginning requires a starting point, and in both orgins account there was a point in time that everything sprang fourth. God was before that point in 'time.' which means He is not on the sideway figure 8, He is able to observe it.

Quote:If you refer to science and in our understanding of time to defend your God, then I assume you will also have no problem with the 3 part chain of causation that your claims of God have left a blank spot in.

An Efficient Cause- Who made it? You say god.

A Material Cause- (blank)

A Formal Cause- The universe

Just because you perceive this world to be tangiable/physical, does it mean that it is?

Have you read my 'matrix' thread? In short I argue that this reality is no more real than the matrix, but because this is all we know it is real to us. and also that is why everything taste like chicken.

Quote:Every form of causation requires all 3 of the above parts in order to effectively bring something else into existance. Explain.

What if we lived in a glactic computer program, as per the rules of the matrix? "Material Cause" would not apply because material causation would be only apply to tangable object found with in the confines of this world, this demension. Because material cause or make up, is a requirement of objects bound to the realm that Physics governs.

Where there is an actual 'matrix 'or whether God is simply a transdemsional being, the fact that His realm His world/Living space is not linked to ours means by defination He is is not bound to our understandings of causality.

Quote:If you believe that only God preceeded the universe, and you are not a proponent of Ex Deo, then from what did God create the universe from

This is an easy one.
But first I'd ask what does science say the universe is made from? Then I'd say 'that.'

I do not believe science and God are apposing forces where it has to be one or the other. I believe science is the system of observation we have developed 9initially) to explain how God did things. The only problem is the prophets of Science (scientists) and the Prophets of the Chruch, did not like sharing respect and did not want to yeild to one another. So left unchecked the two opposing forces were pitted against one another.

As my evolution thread explains there is nothing in either account of orgins that says it must be either or. I say both. For even if Creation happened in a literal 7 days from a garden perspective, God would have still accomplished all of it somehow.

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(August 13, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Nightfoot92 Wrote: Drich, I would very much like you to answer my question and prove to me that the bible doesn't contradict itself. i would like to see you try to respond to that. please don't cherry pick what you do and don't want to answer. If you do that, then i know that i am onto something.

Give me 5 examples of biblical contradiction. (Your best 5) Let us start there.

posted above drich.

(August 13, 2013 at 3:44 pm)tokutter Wrote: Why are you not a mormon?????

Me? Because I am a biblically based Christian. The teaching of mormonism contradict the bible.

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(August 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm)Nightfoot92 Wrote: posted above drich.

pick 5

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the first 5 are really easy and can be quickly explained by looking to the hebrew and greek and placing the orginal message in it's proper context. Pick 5 "hard" ones.

(August 13, 2013 at 3:45 pm)Drich Wrote:

(August 13, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Nightfoot92 Wrote: Drich, I would very much like you to answer my question and prove to me that the bible doesn't contradict itself. i would like to see you try to respond to that. please don't cherry pick what you do and don't want to answer. If you do that, then i know that i am onto something.

Give me 5 examples of biblical contradiction. (Your best 5) Let us start there.

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(August 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm)Drich Wrote: the first 5 are really easy and can be quickly explained by looking to the hebrew and greek and placing the orginal message in it's proper context. Pick 5 "hard" ones.

I am not going to cherry pick for you drich. Because if any single of these are contradictions, then a perfect god couldn't have wrote it, as there is imperfection in it. Surely if god made a holy book about how to run your life, he would make sure that it doesn't contradict itself. I want your apologetic answer to every single on up there.