Quote:However if we ever want a world without religion we need to call them out in a rational and reasoned manner, show them you don't need God to be good and when we debate let their craziness come out on its own.

Really? We need to let them die off. There will be a tipping point when their diminished numbers will lessen their political power even in the US.
That's the day worth waiting for.

My impression is that there is no talking and/or reasoning with fundies like the gang of clowns we have here. They simply want to profess their beliefs so that their god will like them and give them heavenly brownie points.

They are a sorry lot.

It's like parents arguing over their respective child rearing styles up in here.

Barring law/rule breaking, STFU and do what you think works best for you!

Fuck.

(September 20, 2013 at 5:04 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Well, I didn't call any Christian on here a bad name. I just insulted their ideas. Maybe that was bad. I'm married to a Christian, and I'd never call her ideas "shallow-minded, arrogant bullshit" unless I wanted a divorce. Which I do not.

It's just so hard to keep a positive attitude when theistic people don't even consider my ideas worthy of consideration. If only to hear, just once, "okay, maybe you've got a point." Oh, it would be ecstasy!

I don't understand the assumption that any failure to persuade is always the fault of the person who isn't persuaded.

If I don't want to buy your used car it [i]might[\i] be that I can't recognise a bargain when I see it. But it might also be because you aren't a very convincing sales person.

The theist/apologist who is willing to have an AvT discussion with you is at least giving you a chance to make the sales pitch.

[i]...oh but Lion Atheists aren't SELLING anything[\i]

Fair enough. No persuasive burden of proof. Suits me fine.

Feel free to remain unpersuasive for as long as you like.

I am not an advocate of calling another human an idiot, but I do have issue with humans claiming that I will be tortured forever for not believing like them. Truthfully, I doubt that any "moral" christian has fully grasped the concept of hell.

I had a brother die when he was 3 months old and he was not baptized. I have had fucktards tell me that he is rotting in hell, since he was not baptized. When will people start to use logic and realize the absurdity of the bible?

It is this fanatical devotion that demonstrates the lunacy of christians. Apologists and special pleaders sicken me with their devotion to semantics, i.e., Statler Waldorf, because only in their twisted semantics does truth appear. Yet, you reveal a light and again, they further twist semantics. It is an endless game of semantics twisting.

The reason I stopped believing in the bible, because I acknowledged that hell was too extreme for a "loving" god. Bullshit is all I have to say.

(September 20, 2013 at 6:11 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: However if we ever want a world without religion we need to call them out in a rational and reasoned manner, show them you don't need God to be good and when we debate let their craziness come out on its own.

I think we'll eventually wind up with a world without religion, or at least a world where it is marginalized. The growth of freedom, knowledge, and prosperity will lead us in that direction. All of the mysticism in the world won't change that.

But I'm not concerned with changing anyone's opinion, as much as I am curious about what people believe and why. When I was a Christian it was an obligation to pester people into accepting my views. Now that I'm not, I'm not particularly concerned with what people believe as long as they aren't seeking ways to infringe on my rights or freedoms. If, by discussing this stuff, we happen to change a few minds, that's great. But it's not my goal.

So I'm not concerned with whether people are nice to one another. I don't mind getting flamed by theists here, and it doesn't bother me that they get flamed. This shouldn't be a problem to anyone who has spent enough time on the internet and who is smart enough and disciplined enough to not let name-calling get them bent out of shape. Be yourself. It's what you're best at.

Besides, I'm a soft touch, so I need to live vicariously through Minimalist. He has to keep flaming those fucking fundie shitheads or the whole universe is out of whack.

Somebody handle my light work. I'm off to the symphony.

I think its important to note here that Minimalist has the highest kudos and reps of anyone on this site and probably always will. Why? because he says outright what even the most polite of us are thinking. He may be rude and crude but most of the time he's right.

(September 20, 2013 at 7:29 pm)sarcasticgeographer Wrote: Truthfully, I doubt that any "moral" christian has fully grasped the concept of hell.

RIGHT??!!
This has always bugged me. If you know me and you REALLY think I'm going to be tortured in fire for eternity (a breathtakingly bad outcome)- how could you ever have a happy day again? How could you ever stop crying? If you know me at all you know I worry obsessively about ethical and moral behavior (it gets annoying), and that I am ridiculously peaceful. I mean- even Ariel Castro doesn't deserve torture for eternity (and that's saying something). How can people genuinely believe this and walk around like everything's normal? There is a big disconnect there.

(September 20, 2013 at 7:29 pm)sarcasticgeographer Wrote: I am not an advocate of calling another human an idiot, but I do have issue with humans claiming that I will be tortured forever for not believing like them. Truthfully, I doubt that any "moral" christian has fully grasped the concept of hell.

I had a brother die when he was 3 months old and he was not baptized. I have had fucktards tell me that he is rotting in hell, since he was not baptized. When will people start to use logic and realize the absurdity of the bible?

It is this fanatical devotion that demonstrates the lunacy of christians. Apologists and special pleaders sicken me with their devotion to semantics, i.e., Statler Waldorf, because only in their twisted semantics does truth appear. Yet, you reveal a light and again, they further twist semantics. It is an endless game of semantics twisting.

The reason I stopped believing in the bible, because I acknowledged that hell was too extreme for a "loving" god. Bullshit is all I have to say.

Hell is part of the reason I stopped too, but when they started calling you out and saying your baby brother was in hell, who looks like the asshole? Them. They did not really harm anything but there own cause by revealing how sick they are.
What evil disguises itself as good.

If God didn't punish unrepentant sinners by separating them from their victims (heaven/hell) then He would be an unjust God.

You can't have it both ways. If there is a so-called "problem" of evil, then it must be dealt with by God by way of a permanent solution - hell. People complain why doesn't God do something about evil? Well He DOES. But if evil (sin) doesn't really exist then neither does hell.