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When religious people will stop pretending to be the intermediaries between God and the masses and will instead start doing the hard work of extracting the knowledge from within then they will know a bit better how the system works.
You as well will know a bit more about God when you will stop pretending that God can be perceived in a physical-mental way or hardcore pornographic evidence how you say.
You carry the dogma (false truth) that if God can not be perceived in this way then there is no God.
Everything in this physical world is subject to the law of cause and effect so you think that this apply also to someone that is not subject to this law.
How silly can you be!!!
Cause and effect mean no progress can be achieved as the negative will prevent the positive from prevail.
Spirituality on the contrary does not have any negative factor so is not subject to the law of cause and effect and therefore is above the physical evidence.
WTF did I just read? Spirituality does have an effect in society. I have witness plenty of people pray, strapping bombs, get high, and blow themselves up. They usually try to take out innocent people.
Sorry, but I do not use prayer and spirituality to get high. My brain does not dumb a crap load of Dopamine from reading fairy tails.
Your total ignorance in this field make you spew crap.
Religious people put bombs around not those engaged in spirituality.
You find one single person engaged in intuitional science that put bombs around and i will make you rich.
November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am (This post was last modified: November 6, 2013 at 2:11 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(November 4, 2013 at 6:38 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(November 4, 2013 at 2:36 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Because infinite events is impossible
I think if you insist on a cognitive (especially anthropomorphic) God, you're hooped. Thinking is an action, and God is timeless, therefore He cannot think. Creation is an action, and God is timeless, therefore He cannot create. "Possible" means "non-zero of event "E" at time "t."
I don't know what do you mean by timeless
but there is a first event even for God
Quote:If you make God the emobodiment of necessary facts (like numbers etc.), then you might have a case.
You can't find numbers anywhere in the universe, and yet they represent relationships which are obviously true. The same goes for formulas, shapes, etc. You never have a perfect circle in the universe-- and yet all those crude slightly-off circles obviously represent an underlying truth.
You are trying to understand the nature of God; Which is impossible
The summary is that some attributes of God can be proved by logic (his existence is one of them)
(November 4, 2013 at 11:19 am)paulpablo Wrote: So when the quran says god is the originator and creator of the universe the quran is being wrong on purpose because people would have been too common to understand the quran if it actually told people what is correct?
there is a big difference between wrong and a figure of speech
God is the creator of the universe is very clear in Quran
by the way about the origin
there is 2 Islamic schools
1 God created the first "Water"
2 God didn't create it
there is no clear statement in Quran about that
Also my proof only proves the necessity for a doer for each action; creating something from nothing is not the same issue (it may or may not be valid)
(November 5, 2013 at 7:57 am)Dragonetti Wrote: Religious people do not understand, that they are making the claim. When making a claim for the existence and presents of a super being, you have to provide hard factual evidence of existence. We do not care about how you feel about the super being. We want real hardcore pornographic evidence of such existence. Why do I have to disprove something that has not been proven. The mythical books are not evidence.
I feel this! I claim I can move objects with my thoughts. I wrote it down in a green book, so it must be true! Now you must disprove this!
I gave the proof
You have to either refute it or accept it.
Quote:there is a big difference between wrong and a figure of speech
God is the creator of the universe is very clear in Quran
by the way about the origin
there is 2 Islamic schools
1 God created the first "Water"
2 God didn't create it
there is no clear statement in Quran about that
How do you decide when god is using a figure of speech or not?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: You are trying to understand the nature of God my reasoning; Which is impossible
Fixed that for you.
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The summary is that some attributes of God can be proved by logic (his existence is one of them)
I've already shown you why that is not the case. Even if the first two arguments were sound (which they most definitely are not), The only thing you can directly infer from that is that the universe had a cause. Everything else is bare assertion.
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: I gave the proof
You have to either refute it or accept it.
No you did not. You attempted to. It has been pointed out to you why your 'proofs' don't stand up to scrutiny
(November 4, 2013 at 10:33 am)Rational AKD Wrote: the point is, if simultaneous causation is possible, there should be nothing wrong with the concept of God causing the universe. since you are the one raising the objection, it is your burden to prove simultaneous causation is impossible or that it can't exist without time.
Whether or not simultaneous causation is possible is irrelevant. There needs to be a time frame in which those events can occur. No time = no time frame = no event.
Going from state A to state B takes time. Without time there is no change of state. The is simply an unchanging, eternal moment.
(November 5, 2013 at 11:29 am)Dragonetti Wrote: WTF did I just read? Spirituality does have an effect in society. I have witness plenty of people pray, strapping bombs, get high, and blow themselves up. They usually try to take out innocent people.
Sorry, but I do not use prayer and spirituality to get high. My brain does not dumb a crap load of Dopamine from reading fairy tails.
Your total ignorance in this field make you spew crap.
Religious people put bombs around not those engaged in spirituality.
You find one single person engaged in intuitional science that put bombs around and i will make you rich.
You equate religious views as science? The stupidity of the logic is astounding.
Here are spiritual people killing themselves with Taliban Attack.
Religion causes more problems!
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
(November 6, 2013 at 6:39 am)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote:
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: You are trying to understand the nature of God my reasoning; Which is impossible
Fixed that for you.
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The summary is that some attributes of God can be proved by logic (his existence is one of them)
I've already shown you why that is not the case. Even if the first two arguments were sound (which they most definitely are not), The only thing you can directly infer from that is that the universe had a cause. Everything else is bare assertion.
There is no much more, just some attributes for that cause
Quote:
(November 6, 2013 at 1:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: I gave the proof
You have to either refute it or accept it.
No you did not. You attempted to. It has been pointed out to you why your 'proofs' don't stand up to scrutiny
By What?
Quote:Whether or not simultaneous causation is possible is irrelevant. There needs to be a time frame in which those events can occur. No time = no time frame = no event.
What do you mean by time frame?
You are trying to play with the word time to evade the proof
Time (As my definition) would not exist as there is only one event.
(November 6, 2013 at 7:02 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote:
(November 6, 2013 at 6:39 am)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: I've already shown you why that is not the case. Even if the first two arguments were sound (which they most definitely are not), The only thing you can directly infer from that is that the universe had a cause. Everything else is bare assertion.
There is no much more, just some attributes for that cause
The attributes you assigned to that cause are not logically deduced from the reasoning you gave.
Muslim Scholar Wrote:
Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote:Whether or not simultaneous causation is possible is irrelevant. There needs to be a time frame in which those events can occur. No time = no time frame = no event.
What do you mean by time frame?
You are trying to play with the word time to evade the proof
Time (As my definition) would not exist as there is only one event.
This is the same point I made to you. Your response was to assert that god was not the only thing in existence prior to the creation of the universe and so time would have existed for god. You keep contradicting yourself.
(November 6, 2013 at 12:31 am)enrico Wrote: Your total ignorance in this field make you spew crap.
Religious people put bombs around not those engaged in spirituality.
You find one single person engaged in intuitional science that put bombs around and i will make you rich.
You equate religious views as science? The stupidity of the logic is astounding.
You haven't got a clue about the difference between religion and spirituality and then you have the audacity to put both of them on the same stand.
How can you be so cretin?
(November 6, 2013 at 12:31 am)enrico Wrote: Your total ignorance in this field make you spew crap.
Religious people put bombs around not those engaged in spirituality.
You find one single person engaged in intuitional science that put bombs around and i will make you rich.
Quote:You believe that you are a mutation so how a non-intelligent mutation can lead to enlightenment?
Um, unless you reject the entire field of genetics then you believe the same. You just don't realise it.
To equal mystical crap with Science is abhorrent. Just because you want people accept Jesus/God/Mohammad/Gandhi/Buddha into their hearts is just plain bullshit. Accepting fake mystical shit does not make you a better person. The crap arose before Science, and has not provide any benefits after Science. We digress as a society and species with religion and spirituality. Feel good, but feel good for the right reasons!
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!
