The infamous book by Dawkins has been brought up recently in other threads and I didn't want to derail them by asking this, but here goes.

Now obviously our resident theists will probably take issue with the book, but are there any other atheists who found it to be somewhat disappointing?

As I've said elsewhere, I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember - I literally have no recollection of ever believing in god. I did the whole anti-theist thing as a teenager and I grew out of it quite a while before I hit 20 - bar a few drunken quasi-intellectual discussions/debates with a very good friend who also happens to be a lifelong atheist (in which we'd generally alternate in playing devil's advocate, so to speak). We didn't have the advantage of youtube in those days (old git alert), neither did we have forums like this where we could ask questions and share ideas. All we had was our shared thoughts and experiences. Well, that and our mutual inability to concede an argument .

When the god delusion was published, it rekindled my interest in the subject somewhat and so I bought it. I just expected so much more from someone with Dawkin's reputation. Instead, I found the same, tired arguments that I'd grown bored of before I turned 16. It just struck me as being a puerile, unsophisticated waste of ink. The only part of the book I found remotely insightful was the section on morality, and even that contains nothing you couldn't find in a bargain basement section of a second-rate bookshop.

I found it almost inconceivable that this apparent 'champion of atheism' failed to raise a single point that I hadn't considered before my somewhat intellectually inferior self had left school.

This isn't merely an excuse to whinge about the book, I genuinely want to know if anyone else feels the same way about it I as do. I feel let down by Dawkins, embarrassed really.

He does have one saving grace though - he's not Sam Harris.

I really felt it was damned boring, repetitive, and not useful. Dawkins should stick to science.

Out of curiosity, what's your beef with Sam? I have issues with him, too- primarily his absolute inflexibility and sweeping statements on nuanced issues of morality and religion, and some disappointing analysis of his own work in neurobiology. Also, he has a a really thin skin for such a rabble-rouser- his blog is intensely annoying for personal reasons.

I have no problems with it.

It beats the fuck out of the bible.

The god delusion was ok, but then when i read Hitchens "god is not great" i found the same thing. Arguments that I already knew.

But then, I don't really think the books are aimed at people like us. More towards people that have either never really thought about the subject or recovering theists.

Dawkins books on evolution and biology on the other hand are excellent and I've found them to be very informative if like myself, you are not highly science literate.

As another life-long atheist I found TGD codified or clarified a lot of things I already knew or suspected, and introduced a few new ideas....

HOWEVER, I've heard it cited by many former theists as having been a vital influence in their deconversion process, so let's not knock it just cos it didn't tell US much we didn't already know...

(November 9, 2013 at 11:11 pm)Zazzy Wrote: I really felt it was damned boring, repetitive, and not useful. Dawkins should stick to science.

Agreed. So should Hawking. His attempt at philosophy in "a brief history of time" cost me quite a few brain cells from banging my head against the wall in frustration.

Quote:Out of curiosity, what's your beef with Sam? I have issues with him, too- primarily his absolute inflexibility and sweeping statements on nuanced issues of morality and religion, and some disappointing analysis of his own work in neurobiology. Also, he has a a really thin skin for such a rabble-rouser- his blog is intensely annoying for personal reasons.

I generally consider Sam Harris to be a more vulgar, pale shadow of Hitchens. I find his seeming obsession with Islam to be downright offensive - a criticism I also levelled at Hitchens. It may well be just because I'm English, but I find him crass, unsophisticated and over the top. Again, this may well just be a case of cultural bias. After all, I've never had to struggle with my beliefs and I've never really suffered for them.

I don't know, I've grown up watching blackadder, so Hitchens' razor sharp retorts just resonate with me. I guess anything less than a standard of wit comparable to Oscar Wilde falls short of my expectations

Although my distaste at the vitriolic invective levelled at Islam stands regardless. Every single muslim I have ever known and conversed with (both before and after 9/11) has been possessed of a natural good will that I find extraordinarily rare in christian dominated culture. I do not doubt for a second that Islam has it's fair share of bastards, (I find people are people, whoever they are and wherever they come from), but in my experience the average muslim is far more genial than the average christian.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.

---

(November 9, 2013 at 11:42 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: But then, I don't really think the books are aimed at people like us. More towards people that have either never really thought about the subject or recovering theists.

(November 9, 2013 at 11:55 pm)MitchBenn Wrote: HOWEVER, I've heard it cited by many former theists as having been a vital influence in their deconversion process, so let's not knock it just cos it didn't tell US much we didn't already know...

I get what you guys are saying about target audience, it's just strikes me as more of an "atheism 101" than anything else. Maybe I had unfair expectations. It would've been nice to see something new in it though.

Still, it's always nice to hear about other life-long atheists

Haven't read it (or any of Dawkins' other books), and given what I've heard about it, I doubt I will.

only read dawkins's the ancestral gene (is that what it's called)? He's really good at writing.

I don't have any issues with what they say about Islam. What islam really stands for, I have no idea because I've never read the qur'an. But I do come from a culture that's predominantly muslim, I have quite a few muslim friends here in the west, and I've seen what that religion does to people's lives. I have friends who aren't allowed to go out late at night, wear sleeveless dresses, show their knees, date nonmuslims, etc. etc. Even the few muslim guys I know are expected to go through arranged marriage to "good muslim girls" and their parents give them shit for dating nonmuslim girls.

Not to derail but does anyone have any suggestions on worthwhile atheistic literature?

Hitchins was a better writer.
But then he would be.
Dawkins is better evolutionary biologist.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Not-Great-Re...s+religion