Of course atheists support abortion as amoral people support amoral things

(December 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm)Sleepy Wrote: Of course atheists support abortion as amoral people support amoral things

That is completely illogical. Sleepy, adults are talking. go to your room.

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Also, I am supporting the opposite if you can read.

(December 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm)Sleepy Wrote: Of course atheists support abortion as amoral people support amoral things

No, most atheists support a woman's right to choose. See that subtle difference?

But I wouldn't expect you to understand since you've been doing little more than spouting lies in most of your posts.

It's okay, you don't have to apologise: we're used to the religiously indoctrinated lying.

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(December 8, 2013 at 5:25 pm)Duck Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 5:20 pm)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote: Atheists say that Death Penalty is murder, but they condone abortion.

I assume you are saying 'some of the atheists I have spoken to' seeing as atheists share no ideology or commonality beyond not believing in god.

A fetus is not aware, does not feel and is not conscious. There may be a point at which it is, and perhaps after that it should not be allowed to be aborted. But, this would curtail the woman's right to determine what happens to her body. Who has the more important right? The unborn fetus or the woman?

Amazing, isn't it, the way some theists just love to make generalizations?

This atheists supports the death penalty in certain instances.

I also support a woman's right to choose.

(December 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm)Duck Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 5:46 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: If you don't want or can't afford a child, terminating a pregnancy is the most responsible thing you can do.
Women aren't baby making machines, thankfully. We have the same rights to our bodies as anyone else. A foetus has no right to our bodies if we don't give consent.

I am not saying keeping a child is necessarily the most responsible thing. I have not said that.

You do have rights, but at some point so must the fetus. If you make a choice that results in an outcome, you and you alone are responsible. You choose to have sex, and the (perhaps untended) consequence of a pregnancy. By the act, you have given consent for sperm to go into your body and thus impregnate you. That is the consent. Your actions give the consent. No action, no consent.

A foetus has no rights. It doesn't gain any rights at all unless it grows into a baby and is born. Until then it is part of the host's body, which she has all rights too. I don't have sex for reproduction. I have sex for pleasure. I don't want to ruin my life with a smelly, noisy, shitty little demanding creature, so if something goes wrong and I do get pregnant, it's not welcome to stay and will be out by the end of the week. Simplez.

I'm totally in agreement with Nora, women can have sex and its no ones business.

When it becomes my business is when a woman gets pregnant and wants my tax money to pay for her doctors appointments, labs, the birth of the baby, and welfare support to raise that kid. Thats no ones responsibility but hers. Not to mention college if they even get that far. Kids are an inevitable result of sex. Sex was literally designed for procreation.
Have sex all you want. Just don't make me pay for it.

Thats how I feel on the matter but that's not reality. People are going to have sex. Sex is a very important essence of society and humanity, and so are children--whether they were wanted or not. Having children is an essential tool for maturity in some instances. Its natural. Its human. When you deny that basic need you end up with pedophiles, rapists, and psychos--just ask the Catholics and Muslim countries for their statistics of such instances within their ranks.

We as a society are responsible for eachother, to eachother. Standing on two opposite cliffs isn't going to bring you any closer to building a bridge, you have to start building it one piece at a time from your side to the other and meet in the middle.

(December 8, 2013 at 5:57 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm)Duck Wrote: I am not saying keeping a child is necessarily the most responsible thing. I have not said that.

You do have rights, but at some point so must the fetus. If you make a choice that results in an outcome, you and you alone are responsible. You choose to have sex, and the (perhaps untended) consequence of a pregnancy. By the act, you have given consent for sperm to go into your body and thus impregnate you. That is the consent. Your actions give the consent. No action, no consent.

A foetus has no rights. It doesn't gain any rights at all unless it grows into a baby and is born. Until then it is part of the host's body, which she has all rights too. I don't have sex for reproduction. I have sex for pleasure. I don't want to ruin my life with a smelly, noisy, shitty little demanding creature, so if something goes wrong and I do get pregnant, it's not welcome to stay and will be out by the end of the week. Simplez.

Even once the fetus can survive on its own without your body to support it? Once this point is reached at the fetus is viable, can survive without you, do you retain the right to kill it because it happens to be inside you?

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(December 8, 2013 at 6:00 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: I'm totally in agreement with Nora, women can have sex and its no ones business.

When it becomes my business is when a woman gets pregnant and wants my tax money to pay for her doctors appointments, labs, the birth of the baby, and welfare support to raise that kid. Thats no ones responsibility but hers. Not to mention college if they even get that far. Kids are an inevitable result of sex. Sex was literally designed for procreation.
Have sex all you want. Just don't make me pay for it.
Thats how I feel but that's nit reality. People are going to have sex. Sex is a very important essence of society and humanity, and so are children--whether they were wanted or not. We as a society are responsible for eachother, to eachother. Standing on two opposite cliffs isn't going to bring you any closer to building a bridge, you have to start building it one piece at a time from your side to the other and meet in the middle.

I'm not saying it is any of my business. But the dead of a human being is my business. At some point during a pregnancy, there is a point at which it is no longer ok to kill the fetus. That point is when it is viable without the support of the mother.

(December 8, 2013 at 6:03 pm)Duck Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 5:57 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: A foetus has no rights. It doesn't gain any rights at all unless it grows into a baby and is born. Until then it is part of the host's body, which she has all rights too. I don't have sex for reproduction. I have sex for pleasure. I don't want to ruin my life with a smelly, noisy, shitty little demanding creature, so if something goes wrong and I do get pregnant, it's not welcome to stay and will be out by the end of the week. Simplez.

Even once the fetus can survive on its own without your body to support it? Once this point is reached at the fetus is viable, can survive without you, do you retain the right to kill it because it happens to be inside you?

Ideally I wouldn't get that far into a pregnancy without noticing, but as it stands, abortion that late is illegal. But if I did end up that far gone, and it was legal, I'd kill it if I had to, yeah. It's my body and nobody has any right to it. Your argument is rather similar to Sleepy's "you give consent to all sex when you get married" argument for marital rape, isn't it? Interesting.

(December 8, 2013 at 6:08 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 6:03 pm)Duck Wrote: Even once the fetus can survive on its own without your body to support it? Once this point is reached at the fetus is viable, can survive without you, do you retain the right to kill it because it happens to be inside you?

Ideally I wouldn't get that far into a pregnancy without noticing, but as it stands, abortion that late is illegal. But if I did end up that far gone, and it was legal, I'd kill it if I had to, yeah. It's my body and nobody has any right to it. Your argument is rather similar to Sleepy's "you give consent to all sex when you get married" argument for marital rape, isn't it? Interesting.

1) My argument is nothing like the no marital rape one. I even said that earlier if you bothered to read it. I thought you were a reasonable person but apparently not. You give consent by giving consent for sex.

2) Why should you be allowed to kill it? You can be cut open and have it removed intact, but you cannot just kill it.

Whoa whoa whoa buddy! A woman can be cut open--- against her will? Because the baby has existencial rights since the woman consented to sex?! Is that what you're saying?!
*sorry to butt in, its Sunday, I'm bored, and I haven't been posting seriously for weeks so I'm playing catch up

(December 8, 2013 at 6:14 pm)Duck Wrote:

(December 8, 2013 at 6:08 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: Ideally I wouldn't get that far into a pregnancy without noticing, but as it stands, abortion that late is illegal. But if I did end up that far gone, and it was legal, I'd kill it if I had to, yeah. It's my body and nobody has any right to it. Your argument is rather similar to Sleepy's "you give consent to all sex when you get married" argument for marital rape, isn't it? Interesting.

1) My argument is nothing like the no marital rape one. I even said that earlier if you bothered to read it. I thought you were a reasonable person but apparently not. You give consent by giving consent for sex.

2) Why should you be allowed to kill it? You can be cut open and have it removed intact, but you cannot just kill it.

1) Yes it is like the marital rape one. You're suggesting that I'm consenting to more than I am actually consenting to when I have sex. Consenting to sex is not consenting to having a child, it's just consenting to sex. Abortion is there for when fuck ups happen along the way, be it a contraceptive fuck up, or you got drunk/high and made a stupid decision to take a risk.

2) Because it's my body and I don't want it there. I don't want to be cut open. And yes, I can just kill it actually.