(December 12, 2013 at 8:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote:

Continue on, it's what you do best.

GC

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 12, 2013 at 4:06 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: It would help to tell me where i'm wrong but ok how about this:

Big cats kill cubs which are not theirs, in order to bring females back into heat. Therefore the male will be able to mate with them and spread his genes. Benefit.

Killed perfectly healthy cubs that would have matured sooner than his and had a better chance for survival. They do it for one reason to breed.

But they wouldn't have been his. The selfish gene at work. Individuals want to spend their efforts furthering their own genetic line - not that of another animal.

Quote:

BW Wrote:Chimps kill each other to maintain their social hierarchy and group. If one male kills the other in a dominance battle, the stronger will win and the whole group will benefit as a result. Benefit

Chimps will hunt and kill other chimps they do not like, they also will kill out of anger.

True - quite human in that sense aren't they.

Quote:

BW Wrote:Fish will eat their young if the young are deemed too weak to survive. Or, they will be eaten because the parent cannot look after them at that time due to conditions such as lack of food etc. Parent fish live to spawn another day. Benefit

Bull, the male watching the fry will attack and eat healthy fry just because it's hungry.

And you know the thought processes of a fish how exactly?

Quote:

BW Wrote:Wolves, like chimps will kill each other to maintain their social hierarchy and pack statuses. Benefit

Wrong, wolves seldom kill within the pack it's detrimental to the pack, a pack needs all the members it can get. Wolves will hunt down othe packs or solitary wolves and kill them.

To eliminate competition. It should be clear, however, that wolves have territories and generally pack fighting only occurs when one group invades the territory of another.

Quote:

BW Wrote:Grizzly bears kill black bears because they compete for the same food. Benefit

Wrong, grizzlies will kill black bears and the cubs of female grizzlies for food, even when food is plentiful.

Grizzlies are omnivorous. They can get the dual benefit of food and elimination of competition.

Quote:

BW Wrote:Common house cats kill their young because they don't want to take care of them because they either are not ready or don't know how. Waste of time and effort on the cats part. Benefit

I do not know why common cats kill their young, I've seen them do it and they had litters before.

As long as enough cats look after the young they produce the species does not have a problem.

Quote:

BW Wrote:You were saying I was wrong....

I still say you're wrong, some of what you said might be true to a very small degree at best.

GC

And again, how would you know this?

Of course one might add the question - what God would create a world where there is so much hardship and so many seemingly horrible acts?

What God would create a world with so many parasitic creatures doing unspeakably horrific things to other creatures just to survive?[/quote]

I don't think christians themselves know what they are talking about when they say things like this.

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Killed perfectly healthy cubs that would have matured sooner than his and had a better chance for survival. They do it for one reason to breed.

They were not the males cubs, therefore: benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Chimps will hunt and kill other chimps they do not like, they also will kill out of anger.

That doesn't mean it isn't beneficial. If they kill a chimp they don't like, it decreases conflict within the group, better squad cohesion = benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Bull, the male watching the fry will attack and eat healthy fry just because it's hungry.

Natural selection at work here. Only the weakest and slowest fry will be eaten by the male, ensuring the strongest survive and so they are more likely to reproduce in later life. Benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Wrong, wolves seldom kill within the pack it's detrimental to the pack, a pack needs all the members it can get. Wolves will hunt down othe packs or solitary wolves and kill them.

Again, that doesn't stop it from being beneficial. Lone wolves are often males who have left their own pack and are looking to start another. They do this by either taking over another pack or stealing females from it. Killing a lone wolf, prevents this. Benefit. Killing a whole other pack decreases competition for food and hunting grounds. Benefit.

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Wrong, grizzlies will kill black bears and the cubs of female grizzlies for food, even when food is plentiful.

Doesn't change the fact that one less competitor is beneficial.

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: I still say you're wrong, some of what you said might be true to a very small degree at best.

GC

The whole point of me saying these things is because you said killing was pointless or something like that. I have showed you that animals killing each other is never pointless and always beneficial. You have shown you don't know much about animals, evolution or natural selection

(December 13, 2013 at 2:21 am)Godschild Wrote:

(December 12, 2013 at 8:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote:

Continue on, it's what you do best.

GC

You're doing great. I'm enjoying this.

Its funny because he still hasn't actually told me why I am wrong.

(December 13, 2013 at 8:40 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: The whole point of me saying these things is because you said killing was pointless or something like that. I have showed you that animals killing each other is never pointless and always beneficial. You have shown you don't know much about animals, evolution or natural selection

Well, this isn't a rule that it's always beneficial, unless you're being tautological, but cui bono is a good question to ask in any animal behavior.

(December 13, 2013 at 8:40 am)Bad Wolf Wrote:

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Killed perfectly healthy cubs that would have matured sooner than his and had a better chance for survival. They do it for one reason to breed.

They were not the males cubs, therefore: benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Chimps will hunt and kill other chimps they do not like, they also will kill out of anger.

That doesn't mean it isn't beneficial. If they kill a chimp they don't like, it decreases conflict within the group, better squad cohesion = benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Bull, the male watching the fry will attack and eat healthy fry just because it's hungry.

Natural selection at work here. Only the weakest and slowest fry will be eaten by the male, ensuring the strongest survive and so they are more likely to reproduce in later life. Benefit

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Wrong, wolves seldom kill within the pack it's detrimental to the pack, a pack needs all the members it can get. Wolves will hunt down othe packs or solitary wolves and kill them.

Again, that doesn't stop it from being beneficial. Lone wolves are often males who have left their own pack and are looking to start another. They do this by either taking over another pack or stealing females from it. Killing a lone wolf, prevents this. Benefit. Killing a whole other pack decreases competition for food and hunting grounds. Benefit.

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Wrong, grizzlies will kill black bears and the cubs of female grizzlies for food, even when food is plentiful.

Doesn't change the fact that one less competitor is beneficial.

(December 12, 2013 at 8:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: I still say you're wrong, some of what you said might be true to a very small degree at best.

GC

The whole point of me saying these things is because you said killing was pointless or something like that. I have showed you that animals killing each other is never pointless and always beneficial. You have shown you don't know much about animals, evolution or natural selection

Seems to me that you are interpreting science to benefit your view, I've studied animal behavior and some of what you say is natural selection, but that does not mean it's a benefit for the species. Natural selection that's a benefit to animals is when predators take out the old and weak of other species. The wolves of Yellowstone kill each other and I can tell you from experience that there is no lack of food for them, the park could support a larger population of wolves with no harm to themselves or their pray. As far as the fish go, I use to be a semi-pro competitive fishermen and it was my business to know the behavior of fish.

GC

(December 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: Seems to me that you are interpreting science to benefit your view,

How so?

(December 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've studied animal behaviour

When you say 'studied' what do you mean?

(December 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: The wolves of Yellowstone kill each other and I can tell you from experience that there is no lack of food for them, the park could support a larger population of wolves with no harm to themselves or their pray.

Its irrelevant how much food there is, killing a competing predator is beneficial and not pointless in any way.

(December 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: As far as the fish go, I use to be a semi-pro competitive fishermen and it was my business to know the behavior of fish.

GC

Oh well that settles it then! You have completely refuted all my points due to the fact that you've done a bit of fishing. Well done! Splendid!