(January 22, 2014 at 10:04 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(January 22, 2014 at 2:53 pm)jg2014 Wrote: I think the emotion you are describing is called empathy. All I have done is debated, I have not insulted anyone, whereas I have been called a "bitch", "prick", and "pussy" in addition to having been told to "fuck off". Please stop making these nonsense ad hominem attacks, and focus on the debate.

You are just deflecting. I hit the nail on the head. You don't like being exposed so you cry about being insulted.
The debate is nonsense. The little bit of suffering the animals experience when their flesh is harvested is irrelevant. It just doesn't matter. The only thing it actually hurts is your feelings.
Why don't you use your empathy towards things that really matter like helping children or freeing minds of religious bondage?

Since when it is your decision as to whether something 'really matters'? You hit nothing save your own thumb.

^La Ban, why don't you try answering my simple question.

A friend of mine is glutose intolerant and allergic to most nuts, as such he cannot eat almost any processed food (including beer!) An no I'm not making this up.

Should he go vegan?

(January 23, 2014 at 7:55 am)Aractus Wrote: A friend of mine is glutose intolerant and allergic to most nuts, as such he cannot eat almost any processed food (including beer!) An no I'm not making this up.

Should he go vegan?

Firstly, I assume you mean gluten intolerant rather than glutose, if he was glutose intolerant than he would not be able to eat either meat or plants!


Yes, he should still go vegan as he can still eat a wide range of grains to get the majority of his protein, including rice, quinoa, sourgum, millet, buckwheat, corn and amaranth, in addition to the vegetables that are rich in protein such as broccoli. He will also be able to eat mycoprotein, a complete protein. To get lysine he can either take supplements or eat soya, beans and pulses. He wouldn't be able to eat many processed foods, but most health food shops will sell vegan gluten free bread for example. He would have a very healthy diet indeed if he was vegan


Now, if I am cherry picking and data mining then it should be really easy to prove. Just provide some studies showing people on a well balanced vegan diet are unhealthy.

What has your friend's Doctor/ Nutritionist said Daniel?

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(Gluten intolerance= allergy to all wheat products. Also = Coeliac disease
more info HERE)

(January 23, 2014 at 7:55 am)Aractus Wrote: ^La Ban, why don't you try answering my simple question.

A friend of mine is glutose intolerant and allergic to most nuts, as such he cannot eat almost any processed food (including beer!) An no I'm not making this up.

Should he go vegan?

You seem to have an obsession with nuts. You don't need nuts if you are a vegan.

yes he should be a vegan or at the very least vegetarian.

(January 23, 2014 at 3:34 am)jg2014 Wrote:

(January 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm)StoryBook Wrote: @ jg2014

You seem very confused as to what you want. As long as humans are in existence animal will suffer. Even with out us they will suffer, that's nature.

Now...Humans have been constantly evolving. Due to this we are destroying the planet, and causing animals to "suffer". Here are things you should avoid to prevent the animals from further suffering, since you are so crazy about everything being wrong.(You must stop being a hypocrite)
1.paper and wood- all those trees where once homes to animals
2. food from any farm, plants included- all the field is the home for animals they could get hurt by equipment and are loosening their food source.
3.clothing- even harvesting cotton is harmful to animals
4.Cars- never know when you could run over a squirrel or hit a cat.
5. electricity- power plants ruins the planet
6. vets- all the pain they cause to save an animal
7. Doctors- the testing that got you medicine
8. pets- we should not own them according to you. Can't fix them because that causes pain, so I guess they will just keep breeding and being in more pain. But hey, as long as they are in more pain and free, then less pain and sheltered.

I'm sure there are many more, but I think you'll get the idea.
I can't take you seriously if you are not fallowing your own guidelines

Firstly, I dont not solely value reducing animal suffering, I also value human suffering.

Secondly, as power plants are destroying the planet, surely that means they will harms humans as well. Does that mean you want to get rid of them? No, electricity is essential to our lives and our population could not be supported without it. Should we get rid of cars because they kill children? No, but we should ensure that safety measures in place.

The same could be said of all the things you mention, getting rid of them would all cause significant suffering to humans. We should however try to ensure our usage of these things causes as little impact as possible.

Meat eating goes directly against this principle, it is merely cruel.

Oh so you are only against people eating meat, because it causes suffering...So you are ok with animal testing/research , that may also cause long term suffering?After all that also helps prevent human suffering. Did you ever think of cancer?

You can not end suffering! You mind as well just wait for the sun to exploded if you really want all the suffering to end.

(January 23, 2014 at 11:03 am)StoryBook Wrote: You can not end suffering! You mind as well just wait for the sun to exploded it you really want all the suffering to end.

You are correct sir. Actually when we kill animals we put an end there suffering forever.
So eating meat ends animal suffering.

(January 23, 2014 at 11:03 am)StoryBook Wrote: Oh so you are only against people eating meat, because it causes suffering...So you are ok with animal testing/research , that may also cause long term suffering?After all that also helps prevent human suffering. Did you ever think of cancer?

You can not end suffering! You mind as well just wait for the sun to exploded if you really want all the suffering to end.

I value reducing suffering because I value the experience of conscious creatures more widely, and while reducing suffering is of primary ethical concern, positive emotions are slso of ethical concern. Essentially the fundamental premise of the utilitarian argument, which I support, is an equation which is used to judge if our actions produce more harm or more benefit.

As to animal testing, I am ambivalent on the matter because we don't know how science would progress without it, and what the effect would be of diverting funding to science that does not use animals. Certainly though a lot of medical science is of very poor statistical quality and is no benefit to anyone. Nor is it done with the ethical principle of the three Rs that many animal research advocates would claim. All these things make it almost impossible to judge if the suffering caused to animals is greater or less than the suffering to humans if we did not.


With meat though there is no such ambiguity. It is wrong and cruel. Cruel not just to the animals, but cruel to the people who think that meat is healthy but is in fact increasing their risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetes, resulting in years being taken off their life.

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(January 23, 2014 at 12:11 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(January 23, 2014 at 11:03 am)StoryBook Wrote: You can not end suffering! You mind as well just wait for the sun to exploded it you really want all the suffering to end.

You are correct sir. Actually when we kill animals we put an end there suffering forever.
So eating meat ends animal suffering.

So you put an animal through the horror of the farm, merely to justify the killing of it to end the suffering you caused it to feel in the first place! You would reduce the suffering of the animal even more by not farming it.

The horrors of the farm! lol

(January 23, 2014 at 12:57 pm)jg2014 Wrote: So you put an animal through the horror of the farm, merely to justify the killing of it to end the suffering you caused it to feel in the first place! You would reduce the suffering of the animal even more by not farming it.

So, having shelter, food and water is worst than, no shelter(being in rain or snow) , scarce food(starving for days sometimes), and little water(it they can find it)?

Stop trolling us, now you are just being ridiculousness.
You can't even get what you are arguing straight and command us to change to your way of thinking?