(February 16, 2014 at 7:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(February 16, 2014 at 7:09 pm)The Good News Wrote: I know that you know what is terrible, but you will often excuse yourself to do things that are wrong. God has given you a conscience:

Prove it.

(Biblespam isn't compelling evidence, by the way, unless it comes with independent support. Think of it as trying to build a house on sand, if you like.)

Actually, notwithstanding your assertion, what you've basically said is that I, an atheist, am fully capable of doing good things without your spiritual instruction book.

The word of God is sufficient.

No, something can only be good if it glorifies God. You do not glorify God.

So I am only capable of doing evil? Do you not think that an atheist can be 'saved'?

(And no, the word of "God" is not sufficient until you can demonstrate that it is a viable authority.)

After thinking about this question some, it occurs to me that it's less about the absurdity of religion than it is about the question of how we know that what our brains are telling us is the truth. Cops make life and death decisions all the time. We don't say, "What a nut job for killing that serial killer who was firing on unarmed civilians." And we expect soldiers in war to kill the enemy, not sit in their fox hole pondering whether the order makes existential sense or not. So I think, perhaps, the typical theist response might be recast as less an indictment of how they truly feel about their beliefs than it is one of answering how they feel about their own fallibility. Both theists and atheists may be put in situations where they are asked to take human life; it's more a matter of how much of their fallibility rests on them personally, versus trusting in what your brain and whatever authority is relevant are reliable. And as noted, both theist and atheist face similar quandaries. Which probably explains why counseling is typically mandated after a police shooting. I'm not sure the question as posed shows much other than how, by manipulating context, you can make anyone appear a monster.

(February 16, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Stimbo Wrote: So I am only capable of doing evil? Do you not think that an atheist can be 'saved'?

(And no, the word of "God" is not sufficient until you can demonstrate that it is a viable authority.)

No, you cannot do what is good in God's sight:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb 11:6)

"There is none who does good, no, not one." (Rom 3:12)

However I do believe that atheists can be saved as salvation is not according to one's own goodness:

"who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" (2 Tim 1:9)

"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

(February 16, 2014 at 7:21 pm)The Good News Wrote:

(February 16, 2014 at 7:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Prove it.

(Biblespam isn't compelling evidence, by the way, unless it comes with independent support. Think of it as trying to build a house on sand, if you like.)

Actually, notwithstanding your assertion, what you've basically said is that I, an atheist, am fully capable of doing good things without your spiritual instruction book.

The word of God is sufficient.

No, something can only be good if it glorifies God. You do not glorify God.

To believe that, you'd need to prove that god exists, that's he's good, that any source can undeniably prove what he wants, and that there is no other alternative to worshiping him that would get you anywhere. Of course the bible makes these claims, but it doesn't prove anything. In fact much of what is in it has been proven to be wrong or just incomprehensible.

If it's good enough for you, then fine, but it isn't good enough for most human beings, through no fault of our own.

(February 16, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(February 16, 2014 at 7:21 pm)The Good News Wrote: The word of God is sufficient.

No, something can only be good if it glorifies God. You do not glorify God.

To believe that, you'd need to prove that god exists, that's he's good, that any source can undeniably prove what he wants, and that there is no other alternative to worshiping him that would get you anywhere. Of course the bible makes these claims, but it doesn't prove anything. In fact much of what is in it has been proven to be wrong or just incomprehensible.

If it's good enough for you, then fine, but it isn't good enough for most human beings, through no fault of our own.

Well I'm certainly not going to force you to believe the Bible. God, however, demands that you do not make Him out to be a lier.

"Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar." (Rom 3:4)

(February 16, 2014 at 7:59 pm)The Good News Wrote: No, you cannot do what is good in God's sight:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb 11:6)

"There is none who does good, no, not one." (Rom 3:12)

However I do believe that atheists can be saved as salvation is not according to one's own goodness:

"who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" (2 Tim 1:9)

"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

Does it ever occur to you numbnuts that maybe being 'saved' doesn't appeal to us?

(February 16, 2014 at 8:05 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(February 16, 2014 at 7:59 pm)The Good News Wrote: No, you cannot do what is good in God's sight:

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb 11:6)

"There is none who does good, no, not one." (Rom 3:12)

However I do believe that atheists can be saved as salvation is not according to one's own goodness:

"who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" (2 Tim 1:9)

"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

Does it ever occur to you numbnuts that maybe being 'saved' doesn't appeal to us?

Yes, it does.

(February 16, 2014 at 8:05 pm)The Good News Wrote: God, however, demands that you do not make Him out to be a lier.

I don't make him out to be a liar, since I don't believe he exists. If he did exist, what a weak "demand" to make of people! He could always, y'know, not be a liar.

(February 16, 2014 at 8:05 pm)The Good News Wrote: Well I'm certainly not going to force you to believe the Bible. God, however, demands that you do not make Him out to be a lier.

And why should anyone concede to such demands? You still have not shown why anyone ought to take your biblespam seriously. Just because it says it is? Please! Most of us here are above the age of the school playground.