(March 21, 2014 at 1:21 am)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: My morality comes from the ability to determine the consequences of my actions and the effects they have upon others. You are an anti-theist on the other hand and oppose a perceived reality thus denying the notion that there can be a reality besides your own. This then goes back to your morality which means you are aggressive and lack the virtues of kindness, love and tolerance. Since you are incapable of living with other people who do not subscribe to your views you become a nuisance and live to make other people's lives miserable making you an agent of suffering and thus immoral. This also goes back to your perception of reality as you deny the existence of others minds and their autonomy and you perceive yourself as a god because only you know what is best for another mind. You inflict yourself upon other minds as a tumor and try to create duplicates of your own mind through the influence of thoughts, ideas and perceptions. There is a word for this and it is called fitna(chaos). You are essentially the devil and much like the devil you cannot cope with reality and the fact you are unable to have your own reality with your own ideals being presents exclusively.

You behave much like an Iblis and in reality you are one. Hell is a very fit abode for you and in reality hell is where you will stay. But poor little old me cannot tell because I am delusional and do not live in your reality.

Now Tor, where are your manners? Thank the nice theist for telling you about yourself.

Blow it out your ass Abdulrab, pompous little spitfuck that you are.

The Pope told the Mafia that they will go to hell if they don't repent and change their evil ways. So he seems to think that hell is a worse punishment that prison.

(March 21, 2014 at 9:40 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Now Tor, where are your manners? Thank the nice theist for telling you about yourself.

Deist not theist.

Quote:Blow it out your ass Abdulrab, pompous little spitfuck that you are.

You are implying that I believe I have the keys to the universe which is far from the truth. I am actually 1 insignificant speck of shit out of many specks and one of which includes you. We are quite equal

(March 20, 2014 at 1:35 am)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: All religions as of now have at least some concept of divine punishment for immorality and it seems to me that this has worked to a varying degree all until mankind stopped believing in hell. Although there are the religious wars and what not. But on the small scale level it seems to have done something.

Is a just hell better than a just prison?

Interesting question. Supposedly, according to Catholic Theologians, the greatest torture of Hell is the absence of the presence of God and grace.

It should be more just than prison if God is perfect justice.

By the way
IF my username were:
'Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab'

I don't think I would ever be able to sign in a second time

(March 21, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: You fucking came here, uninvited, to tell us that we are evil and deserve hell because we recognize the fact that no religious claims rest upon a firmament of any kind of substance, and then preach to us about kindness, tolerance and virtue?

Go to hell.

I am not the one lying though. I never said any of you are going to hell because I cannot be aware of your own fate or determine the outcomes of your life. It is you who lied and portrayed this of me.

I merely said that the desire to inflict view points upon others in a dogmatic and ironically religious manner is devilish. I was only speaking to Tor and no one else and you know this.

So besides lying what else do you enjoy doing?

(March 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote:

(March 21, 2014 at 9:40 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Now Tor, where are your manners? Thank the nice theist for telling you about yourself.

Deist not theist.

Quote:Blow it out your ass Abdulrab, pompous little spitfuck that you are.

(March 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: You are implying that I believe I have the keys to the universe which is far from the truth. I am actually 1 insignificant speck of shit out of many specks and one of which includes you. We are quite equal

I'm not implying a damn thing, I'm telling you to blow it out your ass because you're a pompous motherfucker that tells people their place is in hell. Any questions dear?

(March 22, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote:

(March 21, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: You fucking came here, uninvited, to tell us that we are evil and deserve hell because we recognize the fact that no religious claims rest upon a firmament of any kind of substance, and then preach to us about kindness, tolerance and virtue?

Go to hell.

Could you give us a list of what you think is immoral behavior?

(March 21, 2014 at 7:09 am)Esquilax Wrote: At the point of self awareness the entity also becomes self determining and most likely willing to preserve its own life. We're no longer discussing the mere destruction of a physical form here, but also the suffering and erasure of a thinking being with great potential for quality of life; it's not merely the destruction of life in question, but the complexity of that life. Have I ever killed a bug? Yes. But the bug is far less mentally acute than a person, just a series of impulses strung together in a shell.

A bug is still conscious although not self aware to the extent that we are. Insects have the capability of choice, it is just less limited.

Quote:That said, I also don't go out of my way to kill bugs either; I might kill a wasp in my house, but I don't go crushing anthills for fun because that level of meaningless destruction has no purpose, it's simply cruel.

Not exactly what I was describing but the point you are making is nonetheless valid as far as animal cruelty.

Quote:Not at all; I'm well aware that this preference for conscious things if contextual. I wouldn't be averse to a justified killing in self defense, for example; there's a complicated situational metric that must be applied, as there should be with all things.

Because we live and exist in human terms, and those are the only ones that matter. What I mean by that is that an omnipotent god wants for nothing, because by definition anything he desires he could create; the only entity for whom morality even matters- in that it's a series of checks and balances designed to maximally enhance the well being of all- is something limited, like humans.

Now you are entering an old Islamic debate since in Islam angels are viewed as perfect and void of free will and always doing what God wants them to yet humans and jinn have free will and can deny what God wants them to do.

The counterpart to this is simple which is that many people find extreme happiness and pleasure when practicing a religion. So it is sort of a reverse which is that humans who need god desire god and thus often times do not care about the nature of god.
You would be surprised by the fools who convert to Islam and had perfectly good, free lives based upon reasoning and turned catshit religious overnight. I was one of them.

Quote:If you say that god doesn't need to be limited by human standards I'm fine with that, but you can't escape from the corollary, that this god also doesn't need to do anything that negatively impacts humans at all. Any breach of those human moral rules, any harm that he causes us, is completely unnecessary to him. That god, should you choose to frame him in those terms, is nothing but an indiscriminate killer and thug.

Hmm, well I guess I should be more clear on the fact that I am specifically referring to a panendeistic/panentheistic god so to say human morals are relevant to such an entity still does not make sense. As I said before, everything exist because it has to, I am not necessarily referring to modal realism since I am a theological idealist but the conceptualization for the need for a contradictory existence is mandated. How can god possess the 3 "O"s and not hold dominion or creatorship in any set of hypothetical universes? If it is omniscient then it should be aware of all things in all universes no matter their contradictory nature. The same applies for the other two qualities and natures. As I said before, God is the most superior entity imaginable plus more so you cannot limit a god no matter how hypothetical the conclusion is.
So to still say a God should be accepted upon human conditions is illogical considering it should also be accepted in accordance to the conditions of other species and possibly aliens more advanced than us. The phrase "he is our sustainer" does not mean that God gives bread and wine to people.

Quote:Or, to borrow something you said earlier, he is crushing ants for no reason at all.

I wouldn't say that God is crushing ants for no reason. Especially if those ants are apart of your body. You are asserting that when I say God I am implying that we are detached from God somehow. Considering that I assert that all of existence is a reflection of consciousness of a god then how would you apply this to god we are literally apart of god.

Quote:However, those deaths serve a purpose in extending the predator's lives. Suffering with a purpose is different from, as with your question, the needless destruction of a sentient machine, for example. One is justified- though still not ideal, since I don't think any one of us wouldn't alter things so that suffering could be avoided had we the ability to.

A computer was a bad analogy now that I think of it. Sorry but I am a techy so 90% of all my thoughts consist of binary numbers and Linux commands. I swear my brain is nothing but a 1 TB SSD .
I used a computer because I was sure you would immediately assert that is is property which of course is untrue because you assert that sentiences negates ownership.
So how about we make that sentient being your arm and that arm does not do as you command. Little more better I suppose.

---

(March 22, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote:

So you are threatening to hit me? Lovely sweety, just lovely

Quote:I'm not implying a damn thing, I'm telling you to blow it out your ass because you're a pompous motherfucker that tells people their place is in hell. Any questions dear?

I never said your place is hell. It seems you have a fixation for lying dear child. You are not very bright when it comes to philosophy and especially Subjective Idealism. Nothing I can do about that since inbreeding causes severe brain abnormalities

(March 22, 2014 at 7:02 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote:

(March 22, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote:

So you are threatening to hit me? Lovely sweety, just lovely

Sorry I'll make it clear what I meant;

(March 22, 2014 at 7:02 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote:

Quote:I'm not implying a damn thing, I'm telling you to blow it out your ass because you're a pompous motherfucker that tells people their place is in hell. Any questions dear?

I never said your place is hell. It seems you have a fixation for lying dear child.

You see that bit that I made obvious for you in my quotation? You know, the one where I said people and not me?

You did say this to Tor;

(March 21, 2014 at 1:21 am)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: Hell is a very fit abode for you and in reality hell is where you will stay

So who's the dishonest fuck again?

(March 22, 2014 at 7:02 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: You are not very bright when it comes to philosophy and especially Subjective Idealism.

Do you have any evidence that suggests I'm not or are you just talking out of your ass in an attempt to discredit me?

(March 22, 2014 at 7:02 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: Nothing I can do about that since inbreeding causes severe brain abnormalities

Aww, you're trying so hard, I'd give you a kudos but I fear the irony would be lost on you.

Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab what is immoral? Give me a list.