(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Why do you call them conmen? They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica. I am very impressed with their findings.

From the Old Earth Ministries site -

Old Earth Belief

Quote:We take young earth creation science arguments and show their faults, exposing them for using misleading scientific claims and bad theology.

If you can't be bothered with the science, check out the theological arguments. Even Christians who believe in creation think Ken Ham and his people are talking rubbish.

(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Why do you call them conmen? They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica.

Looks like you answered your own question.

(April 22, 2014 at 10:47 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 21, 2014 at 6:48 pm)pocaracas Wrote: 3 points I addressed.... you decided to speak of one of them.... and in a very rude and crude manner... not to say something "minimalist-like".
In the 2 lines preceding the "drawings and sketches", what did I write?
Care to tell me?
What was the very relevant piece of information I relayed to you by the form of writing on an online forum?
Did you understand it?
Clearly not, or else you wouldn't have taken the time to write that turd I'm quoting above!

Were you perhaps expecting me to send you, via this very online forum, the actual fossils, the millions of fossils from thousands and thousands of different locations, depths and plant and animal species??
And did you expect to understand from what sort of plant or animal that ancient fossil came from?
Can you even grasp the number of different fields of knowledge and science that are required to identify one fossil?

Let go of your lying and conning sites and learn from the people who actually work in the fields of science you are trying to address.

Do you know what a fossil is?

I looked it up on the net and read about it.

Sure hope it wasn't on AiG, or any similar site... Even the wikipedia is a better source of information.

(April 22, 2014 at 10:47 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: The lack of fossil evidence doesn't defend your position.

And the abundance of fossils doesn't defend yours.
Either we're both wrong, or my position, with its full awareness of the nature of that absence of fossils, is the most accurate available.

(April 22, 2014 at 10:47 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Also, a discovery of a tooth or part of a jawbone doesn't give the greatest scholar the right to draw a detailed animal that suits their theories.

Indeed, it doesn't.
But it allows them to make educated guesses as to the shape of the head... from there, more educated guesses as to the shape of the body.
And usually they insist on showing you exactly what the fossil is and how they pieced it together to arrive at the overall body.

Look at this skull... see if you can tell which parts are actual fossil (replica) and which are extrapolations:


They can even then extrapolate a face:


Of course, we know this isn't exactly what the person looked like, but it's an approximation.

For Revelation777

I found an interesting article on Old Earth Ministries which includes theology.

Old Earth Creation Science - Dinosaur Evidence for an Old Earth

First the theology.

Quote:Before we proceed, lets lay a little groundwork first. God made it rain upon the earth for 40 days. At the end of the forty days, the water would be at it’s highest. Therefore, it stands to reason that all land animals are killed before the end of this forty day period of rain. We see this in Genesis 7:20-23, which states,
“Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man; 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth; and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.”
It is obvious that all animals were dead at the end of this forty day period of rain.
However, the evidence we have of the dinosaurs indicates that they were alive and well when the Mesozoic rocks were being deposited, which, according to young earth creation science theory, is the receding phase of the flood, when the waters are decreasing. The time period for this receding phase can be deduced from Genesis. Genesis 7:24 states,

“And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.”

Couple this with the 40 days of rain, and we have 190 days until the waters started to recede from the earth. This is the point that the young earth model claims that the dinosaur-bearing Mesozoic rocks were deposited…a full 150 days after all the dinosaurs were supposedly killed. To answer this, they turn to the floating body theory mentioned above. However, as you will see below, the evidence does not support this theory.
Now that we have laid the groundwork, let’s look at the evidences from the Mesozoic rocks which completely shatter the young earth flood model.

This is my favorite bit of evidence.

Quote:Fossilized excrement in the rock record is called a coprolite.

It is important to note that all of the fossilized dinosaur poop is found in Mesozoic rocks. According to Steven Austin and the young-earth proponents, these rocks were deposited in the receding phase of the flood, therefore to have dinosaurs pooping in these rocks, when they were clearly dead by the end of the 40 days of rain, is not possible.
The only possible young earth creation science model to explain fossil distribution (including coprolites) is the floating body model. As the bodies floated around, they gradually sank, giving us the fossil record we see today. However, let’s consider the poop. Even if the dinosaurs floated until the same time and then sank, how is it that their poop sank at exactly the same time as the bodies? No, this explanation is not feasible.
For the person considering old-versus-young earth creation, they must consider…why do we have dinosaurs laying down all this poop, right in the middle of sediments deposited by the receding waters of Noah’s Flood? By the young earth Flood model, all the animals died within the first forty days of the Flood, so why do we have massive amounts of coprolites in late-Flood sediments?

There's a lot more until the article concludes with -

Quote:The young earth creation science Flood model cannot explain all the evidences for dinosaurs that were living, pooping, walking, breeding, and eating, right in the middle of Noah’s Flood. By their model, they should have died in the first 40 days of the Flood, as God says in Genesis 7:20-23, but instead we have direct evidence that they survived the first 40 days of the Flood. The young earth model is in direct contradiction to the Bible in this matter.
The only plausible explanation is that the earth is billions of years old. These dinosaur rock layers were laid down millions of years ago, just like the geologist has said all along. The standard geologic explanation is the best one, and there is no need to try and squeeze all the fossil bearing rock layers into a year-long flood event.
God created the dinosaurs millions of years ago. There is no plausible evidence to suggest otherwise.

As I'm an atheist I don't believe the theology but this view makes more sense in relation to what's written in the Bible.

(April 22, 2014 at 10:27 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 21, 2014 at 5:55 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm actually going somewhere with this.

I repeat: can inert matter, by itself, produce life?

Yes, God took dirt and made man.

I actually said "by itself", but never mind.

So "God" is the only mechanism by which life can appear from inert matter?

(April 22, 2014 at 11:29 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Dear Faith No More,
I believe without a shadow of a doubt that there is a Creator and He is Jesus Christ.

Who cares? What matters, all that matters, is can you demonstrate any of it?

(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Why do you call them conmen? They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica. I am very impressed with their findings.

And what precisely are their findings? They have a museum with 100% fake contents and a land-locked boat amusement park that's sinking faster than it would have done at sea.

(April 22, 2014 at 11:37 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Why do you call them conmen? They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica. I am very impressed with their findings.

Disney has a Land and a World, it doesn't mean that Mickey Mouse really exists, or that you'll find the little mermaid under the sea.

I call them conmen because their business is built on the back of falsehoods and deliberately deceptive practices. For starters, and I can't stress this enough, their website advertises that they will completely disregard all alternative views and will twist things to fit the one they've chosen; that doesn't sound like an objective scientific source to me, which is what they play themselves off as. Not to mention each and every one of their findings is completely, demonstrably false according to science, and you would know that if you went anywhere else to educate yourself, and yet they host those claims there up until the point that the general public finds them so ridiculous that it's embarrassing for them to keep espousing them.

That is the behavior of conmen, not a group that's interested in the truth, no matter what it happens to be.

Wait a minute!!! Mickey is not real.. wtf!! I buy stock in disney..

(April 22, 2014 at 10:27 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Yes, God took dirt and made man.

I am quite certain Christianity stole this mythological idea from the Jews and their Golems.

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(April 22, 2014 at 11:25 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Just because you have not experienced any doesn't mean the supernatural doesn't exist.

I would venture to make the assertion that anyone who who claims to have experienced anything supernatural is not right in the head. [/i]

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(April 22, 2014 at 11:29 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I believe without a shadow of a doubt that there is a Creator and He is Jesus Christ.

May your delusion be swiftly swept away from you one before it is too late for you to join the ranks of the rational here in reality.

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(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica. I am very impressed with their findings.

That is because you prefer the comforting lie over the harsh truth.

(April 23, 2014 at 9:52 am)Stimbo Wrote:

(April 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Why do you call them conmen? They have a Creation Museum and they will be building a Noah's Ark replica. I am very impressed with their findings.

And what precisely are their findings? They have a museum with 100% fake contents and a land-locked boat amusement park that's sinking faster than it would have done at sea.

This is especially hilarious. Artist renditions based on evidence? Clearly fake.

Museum based entirely on a 2000+ year old book with no evidence? All of it must be real.