Nahhh he's right. If I wanted to have a better time with life I would wear a cross. You're automatically trusted, and accepted. No matter where you are. Some peoples conversations in the workplace (certain professions like in hospitals especially) are constantly talking about their faith and whatnot (essspecially catholics). Any dogmatic christian looks at life through a god looking glass, it's just natural for them to talk about their lives from the perspective that they see. The difference between themselves and myself, is that I don't feel the necessity to push my worldview on them, whereas they make comments attributing power to god and then give me a look to see if I'll agree.
Everyone knows that not everyone here is a Christian, so when I'm forced into a conversation referring to god's great plan! or whatever.. I just try to talk about reality with them--things about what they said that we can both agree on existing. I won't hide if confronted and I wont lie about what I think, and if someone's factually incorrect then I will tell them so. I don't just tell them god is great but I also don't go telling them god doesn't exist.

(April 26, 2014 at 12:40 am)Luckie Wrote: Nahhh he's right. If I wanted to have a better time with life I would wear a cross. You're automatically trusted, and accepted. No matter where you are. Some peoples conversations in the workplace (certain professions like in hospitals especially) are constantly talking about their faith and whatnot (essspecially catholics). Any dogmatic christian looks at life through a god looking glass, it's just natural for them to talk about their lives from the perspective that they see. The difference between themselves and myself, is that I don't feel the necessity to push my worldview on them, whereas they make comments attributing power to god and then give me a look to see if I'll agree.
Everyone knows that not everyone here is a Christian, so when I'm forced into a conversation referring to god's great plan! or whatever.. I just try to talk about reality with them--things about what they said that we can both agree on existing. I won't hide if confronted and I wont lie about what I think, and if someone's factually incorrect then I will tell them so. I don't just tell them god is great but I also don't go telling them god doesn't exist.

It depends on what you think is better for yourself, to respect yourself, or to have the respect of gullible idiots. I'll go for self respect everyday and I think at the end of the day that's what always will make you feel better as a person. I don't need to be patted on the head by people to have a good life. A good life is about being true to yourself. I don't really care too much for using personal points to try to make an argument, but I do need to note that I currently live in Utah.

Only a few folks know my lack of belief. I'm from a red state and don't want to risk the possible (probable) alienation/harassment from some family members and not sure how others would react so I check my shoelaces or become suddenly distracted by other topics when prayer or religion comes up. Coworkers I'm close to know, but bosses/others who would see an opportunity to save my soul do not. It's easier for me that way...especially since it seems there has been an increase in jesus-osity lately. (seems like there's some Facebook god & blessings quota)

lol what? I thought you were living down South last I heard! Why on earth would you move to Utah??

I do respect myself. I also would want my Christian boss to promote me based on merit rather than my personal beliefs. That's just not going to happen, and you know what is important? Putting food on your kids' tables. Getting along with people at work so they don't try to get you fired from your job. You can't stop bigots in the workplace, but you don't have to lay down the line everywhere you work either. The ones who do lay down the line and declare war--will unveil themselves.

I think it's more self respecting to respect those who do not respect you. I'd rather a theist realize they're completely and utterly wrong on their own, without me telling them they are till I'm blue in the face.
That said, if someone states something fear-based and religion induced-- like, "I love the jews so much I'd blow up a mosque!" or, "Prayer's being taken out of schools!", I'll of course try to belay their fears with facts. But only when I'm invited to do so. I don't just break into a debate because someone says something that I disagree with.

If you read my prior posts then you'd know I said I don't outright open up a debate with people who talk about god to me by stating my beliefs when they don't know my beliefs. I also said I told everyone I know personally that I'm an atheist. But in public, you have neither the time or the energy to lay out your case of reality and break down theists' walls of ignorance and self delusion. They believe in god. I can't say there isn't a god so we have nothing to talk about, god wise. I try my best to find talking points about the reality of someone's conversation when they bring up god-- in order to simply relate to them. I don't like or dislike people of faith any more than I would someone not of any faith based on those facts--but that doesn't mean that other people will do the same thing. Christians are very thoroughly taught to actually be inherent bigots, so I try to live life as best I can being as good of an example of how I would like to be treated.

(April 26, 2014 at 1:55 am)Luckie Wrote: lol what? I thought you were living down South last I heard! Why on earth would you move to Utah??

I do respect myself. I also would want my Christian boss to promote me based on merit rather than my personal beliefs. That's just not going to happen, and you know what is important? Putting food on your kids' tables. Getting along with people at work so they don't try to get you fired from your job. You can't stop bigots in the workplace, but you don't have to lay down the line everywhere you work either. The ones who do lay down the line and declare war--will unveil themselves.

I think it's more self respecting to respect those who do not respect you. I'd rather a theist realize they're completely and utterly wrong on their own, without me telling them they are till I'm blue in the face.
That said, if someone states something fear-based and religion induced-- like, "I love the jews so much I'd blow up a mosque!" or, "Prayer's being taken out of schools!", I'll of course try to belay their fears with facts. But only when I'm invited to do so. I don't just break into a debate because someone says something that I disagree with.

If you read my prior posts then you'd know I said I don't outright open up a debate with people who talk about god to me by stating my beliefs when they don't know my beliefs. I also said I told everyone I know personally that I'm an atheist. But in public, you have neither the time or the energy to lay out your case of reality and break down theists' walls of ignorance and self delusion. They believe in god. I can't say there isn't a god so we have nothing to talk about, god wise. I try my best to find talking points about the reality of someone's conversation when they bring up god-- in order to simply relate to them. I don't like or dislike people of faith any more than I would someone not of any faith based on those facts--but that doesn't mean that other people will do the same thing. Christians are very thoroughly taught to actually be inherent bigots, so I try to live life as best I can being as good of an example of how I would like to be treated.

I don't really live anywhere, so to speak. My normal year consists of spending a couple months in California, a few Months in Mexico or Latin America, a bit of time in Utah and the Summer in Canada. I was in the South because the girlfriend I had then was from the South/East Coast, so we did a traveling tour out that way. Utah is an awesome place for outdoor activities though. It's a great state. The Mormons are goofy, but I've never had a problem with any bigotry from them towards me as an Atheist.

Then again to be perfectly fair, I'm not someone who really is concerned about advancing myself economically, so I'm not having to deal with workplace bigotry, although I don't see why the subject of religion should come up at all. I can recall a time at a previous job when I was asked by a co-worker if I went to church, and I said 'No, I'm an Atheist.' I don't remember it really being a big deal. If the person had decided to argue with me I probably would of argued back, but we were friends so I can't imagine letting something like that come between us. Really if someone likes you as a person, it won't matter what yours or their belief system is. I think you and I actually have a similar approach to dealing with it. I mean I don't need to wave a big Atheist flag around all the time, but if someone asks or if it comes up I'll definitely tell them. Also it says Atheist on my facebook profile.

Also though some of it could be a matter of personality. I'd say in real life I'm one of the few people who are a good deal more confrontational than I am on these forums. So the idea of closeting any of my beliefs is rather abhorrent to me. I think that personally I'd be far less happy hiding by beliefs to please others.

As always, good conversation.

Here, even if people know you, coming out automatically changes their opinion so those i tell have to be very close before they'll reconsider their preconceived ideas. (politically as well) personally, liberal is an easier transition for them to accept than godless- so i start with that and maybe in 5-10 years I can openly state both. (my current formerly purple state went to a banning gay marriage, business first , eek! the president is black red state in 2 yrs.

(April 25, 2014 at 9:41 pm)nogodchick Wrote: I'm English, where its more or less okay to be a non believer, or at least people aren't all that interested. It's clear that the same cannot be said about vast swathes of the USA. I was wondering if there is such a thing as closet atheists. I mean, is it a phenomenon or is it ok to admit your Godlessness?
And I hear atheism is on the rise over there. Is that true?

I guess it depends where you are.
In or around major cities, it's more or less OK to be an open atheist. Just because there's such a variety of people, it's hard for one radical group to get a foothold without half the community coming down on them.

I was fortunate to have grown up around, and sometimes in, Chicago my whole life. Even here, the religious people are pretty nonchalant about it, so religion was always just "there", but it was never really emphasized in any way.

And as we like to say around here now...
Chicago is very open minded, and not at all bigoted. Everyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, gender, or sexual orientation, has an equal chance of being shot.
:p

Welcome. Here is your welcome seal.



And religion in america, avoid the south.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance
More than 40% of the country attends mass weekly. This is about the same rate as conservative Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i...ted_States
Mississippi is the highest with 63%, which is as high as Poland.
Vermont is the lowest with 23%, which is still higher than 16 of the 25 countries listed in that chart in the first Wikipeda article.

Many countries have almost as high rates of Christianity as we do (such as Autralia), but with WAY lower rates of church attendance (such as Autralia). I think this suggests that religion behaves differently depending on where you go. I hear that Australians consider it a social faux pas to talk about your religion in public.

http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscript...an2009.pdf
This is an interesting study on religion. Apparently church-, mosque-, and synagogue-attendance are correlated with admiring suicide attacks against religious outgroups, [edited] but it isn't correlated with frequency of prayer if you control for attendance. Of course, there are probably various motivations behind attendance, so we can't generalize. [/edited]