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(May 4, 2014 at 10:31 am)Riketto Wrote: Even Lord Shiva that live well before Buddha
teach tantric meditation so mantra meditation was
there before Buddha.
The article makes it very clear that he's a god, the ultimate something which manifests but isn't incarnated. (I'm not sure if that's the correct term but it will have to do).
Quote:As the primal reality, Shiva is looked upon in four main ways. Shiva is first the original light of reality, Prakasha. Second, he is the immortal life force, Prana. Third, he is primal sound, OM or Pranava. Fourth he is the primal being or pure consciousness, Atman orPurusha, our own inner Self and true nature.
He is the being of cosmic consciousness far beyond the constraints of any creaturely mind and its compulsions.
He doesn't just manifest in humans.
Quote:Shiva is also the great deity of nature, the lord of animals or Pashupati. He is the lord of the wild. He really has no human form. We find his face and form hidden in nature, whether in the mountain, tree, the cloud, the animal or the rock.
This next bit relates to what humans were doing 70,000 years ago.
Quote:Looking back in time and history, we could say that Shiva is the deity of the shaman also, and as such perhaps the oldest formulation of the sacred in humanity He is the lord of the dance, of ecstasy, of the drum, of dream and trance which the Shaman seeks. To Shiva belongs the sacred fire and the sacred plant, the Agni and Soma of Vedic lore.
Quote: Lord Shiva was and is a god who is held in high regard. His popularity can be seen by the fact that he is worshipped in all parts of India and his presence can be seen from north to south, east to west in a country that is very well known for its diversity.
One of the documented proofs of the existence of Lord Shiva indicating his origins can be found in Mohenjo-daro. That would mean that the proof is over 4000 years old!! Here Lord Shiva is seen in the form of Pashupati or the lord of animal like beings. The reason this proof, which is in the form of a seal discovered during a dig, is considered one of the earliest recordings of Lord Shiva is because of the figure carved out on the seal. The figure seems to be sitting in a yoga position with its knees out and its feet joined together and is surrounded by animals. Lord Shiva has been considered by many to be a Mahayogi or a great yogi. He is credited with the invention of yoga.
The article finishes with -
Quote:But if we were to follow what the Puranas, ancient Hindu scriptures, tell us then Lord Shiva has no origin. According to these holy scriptures Lord Shiva has no beginning and no end. He is immortal and will live forever. He has not been born and so in essence, he cannot die.
So, Shiva did not live before Buddha and he's been credited with inventing yoga in the same way that the Egyptian Goddess, Isis, was credited with teaching humans weaving and medicine.
The Mohenjo-daro seal is only 4,000 years old but, it's possible that the origins of Shiva as Lord of the Animals is much earlier than that.
I'll leave you with a quote from C.G.Jung where he's talking about a subjective experience.
Quote:The self is the most important personality archetype and also the most difficult to understand. Jung has called the self the central archetype, the archetype of psychological order and the totality of the personality.
It's like the blueprint for how the human mind operates but this doesn't automatically mean it's something mystical which is divorced from how the human brain operates.
Quote:The ego receives the light from the Self. Though we know of this Self, yet it is not known.... Although we receive the light of consciousness from the Self and although we know it to be the source of our illumination, we do not know whether it possesses anything we would call consciousness.... If the Self could be wholly experienced, it would be a limited experience, whereas in reality its experience is unlimited and endless.... If I were one with the Self I would have knowledge of everything, I would speak Sanskrit, read cuneiform script, know the events that took place in pre-history be acquainted with the life of other planets, etc. ( 1975, pp.194-195)
The human brain can produce dreamlike, symbolic experiences. The human blueprint has been the same in every member of the modern human species who has ever lived, including those who speak Sanskrit or read cuneiform script. Symbols aren't to be taken literally, though. If I ever became one with the Self I wouldn't suddenly know how to speak any other languages or be able to read cuneiform. I'm now wondering if this kind of experience is what leads people to believe in reincarnation.
As for the Self knowing about the life of other planets, well, if the brain is going to produce dreamlike symbols it might as well include the universe while it's at it.
May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am (This post was last modified: May 5, 2014 at 10:43 am by Little Rik.)
(May 4, 2014 at 10:08 am)Confused Ape Wrote: How are you defining consciousness? How are humans as a species more conscious today when we still have wars, religions, ridiculous superstitions and have exchanged fairy abductions for alien abductions etc.? The things that drove our ancestors still drive us today.
Consciousness without spirituality can be very very dangerous.
With more consciousness you get more awareness of your potential
That however does not means that you will use such a potential in the right way.
The industrial revolution of the recent past and the more efficient
ways of killing more people than in the past are both due to an increase in consciousness.
Without spirituality you are in the hands of the two opposite forces
(positive and negative or yin and yang).
Spirituality is 100% positive and 0% negative so only consciousness+ spirituality lead to real progress.
Consciousness without spirituality may or may not lead to progress
as well as regress.
Quote:Let's say that Ötzi's nervous system really was subtly different to ours and those tattoo marks prove that there was a form of acupuncture treatment back then. His health problems, which were revealed by the studies, show that the treatment didn't work. This goes against your idea that acupuncture was more effective a few thousand years ago because people had different nervous systems.
How would you know the previous health situation
of Otzi?
He could have had previous health problem so severe
that nothing would work.
Who told you that acupuncture was the panacea for
incurable diseases?
(May 4, 2014 at 11:26 am)James2014 Wrote: [quote='Riketto' pid='663753' dateline='1399213862']
Meditation without a mantra is no meditation.
You can call it contemplation but not meditation.
Quote:What are you talking about? This is just nonsense, Buddhists do most of their meditation without mindlessly repeating some nonsensical phrases, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapanasati Perhaps you using your "intuition" again? You call your beliefs spiritualism, but really you are nothing more than a religious fanatic, denying reality to justify your own messed up beliefs.
You are absolutely ridiculous.
What people know today about Buddha come from religious dogmas.
If i would follow your logic i would hear you say that the rosary and
the mass is what Christ was teaching when in fact Christ never teach
that and he was even against such rituals.
You haven't got a clue what meditation is all about.
You never practice tantric meditation and you wouldn't know that
with the inhaling and exhaling there got to be a sound or mantra.
Every vibration in the universe has a sound so when you breath you
also produce a sound whether you are aware or not.
In the tantric meditation this awareness get deeper and deeper
as your meditation get stronger.
You have two choices James.
Or you get real and experience this practice so you can judge
with your own experience or you keep on masturbating your brain
into believing what religions and wiki say.
Quote:More fanatical ravings with a few straw men thrown in there. All an omnivore is, is an animal with physiological adaptations to be able to eat both meat and plants. It says NOTHING about what we should do. Do you get it? You admitted our intestines are shorter than herbivores, and are the same length as most omnivores. That makes us omnivores. It does not mean we should eat animals though.
Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.
Quote:Very few Greeks among the Greek population and among
the global population knew.
Does this means that the exception is the rule?
Quote:So they were somehow different to everyone else? How do you know? More evidence of your "intuition"
You got stuck in the usual dogma once again.
We usually say.........THE GREEKS as if all the GREEKS behave in the same way when in reality only less of 1% of Greeks had this knowledge.
There is no need to use intuitional knowledge to know this.
The history tell us.
Quote:So you have failed to address my point. If there were changes, then what changes are these? what genes were altered? You don't know because you don't understand even simple scientific concepts. Your arguments lack any reasoning beyond your own idiotic "intuitions". You are a religious fanatic who has spent too much time meditating and not enough reading books.
You don't need intuition to understand how the humans evolved.
For a million years nothing much happened.
It is only in the last 15000 years that the things started moving
and it is in the last few hundred years that they started moving even faster.
As i said yesterday this is due to the avalanche effect.
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: Consciousness without spirituality can be very very dangerous.
You still haven't explained what consciousness is.
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: With more consciousness you get more awareness of your potential
How do you get more awareness of potential? How does consciousness work?
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: The industrial revolution of the recent past and the more efficient
ways of killing more people than in the past are both due to an increase in consciousness.
The industrial revolution wouldn't have been possible without the inventions and discoveries of the past.
Quote:Gears c. 5th century BC Developed further than in prehistoric times for a variety of practical purposes.
Improving and adapting gears is one thing but the real genius is whoever invented gears in the first place. We're now using wind turbines to manufacture electricity but wind turbines are just an adaptation of ancient technology designed to harness wind power. The turbines also use gears.
Quote: The ancient Greeks were the first people to have showers. Their aqueducts and sewage systems made of lead pipes allowed water to be pumped both into and out of large communal shower rooms used by elites and common citizens alike.[5] These rooms have been discovered at the site of the city Pergamum and can also be found represented in pottery of the era. The depictions are very similar to modern locker room showers, and even included bars to hang up clothing.[6] The ancient Romans also followed this convention; their famous bathhouses can be found all around the Mediterranean and as far out as modern-day England. The Romans not only had these showers, but also believed in bathing multiple times a week, if not every day. The water and sewage systems developed by the Greeks and Romans broke down and fell out of use after the fall of the Roman Empire.
The first mechanical shower, operated via a hand pump, was patented in England in 1767 by William Feetham,[7]
Does this mean that the ancient Greeks and Romans were more conscious than medieval people and human consciousness didn't start improving again until the middle of the 18th century?
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: How would you know the previous health situation
of Otzi?
He could have had previous health problem so severe
that nothing would work.
Who told you that acupuncture was the panacea for
incurable diseases?
You keep insisting that acupuncture was more effective in the past. If Ötzi' did have a form of acupuncture treatment, what, exactly, did acupuncture do then that it doesn't do now? After all, the state of his health proves that it didn't cure arteriosclerosis. It didn't cure arthritis, either.
Quote:Clinical examination and imaging investigations have also shown that the Icemen had experienced possible illnesses in his lifetime and had identifiable areas of arthritis and musculoskeletal injury.
The skin of the Iceman has numerous linear carbon tattoos, which are not of a decorative type. These have been presumed to possibly be "medicinal" tattoos administered for therapeutic reasons and may have been used in acupuncture-like treatment of pain.
The Chinese have been using acupuncture for around 3,000 years. Do you think they would agree with you about it being less effective now than in the past?
May 5, 2014 at 3:25 pm (This post was last modified: May 5, 2014 at 3:27 pm by Confused Ape.)
New post because my previous one is long enough.
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.
Quote:Atherosclerosis is a condition in which lipids (the oily substance that is part of the cell structure), fatty materials, such as cholesterol, and calcium collect along the walls of the arteries (blood vessels that carry oxygen-enriched blood). This buildup is referred to as plaque, and over time results in loss of elasticity, and a narrowing of the lumen (the inner space) of the affected arteries.
Generally this condition is uncommon in dogs but has been reported in certain breeds, including the Doberman pinscher, poodle, miniature schnauzer, and Labrador.
Vegans like everyone else, need Vitamin B12. I found an interesting article about this - B12 and the Vegan Diet
Quote:The association of vitamin B12 with animal foods such as fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk and dairy products has helped create the myth that this vitamin can only be obtained from these foods and that a vegetarian or vegan diet provides a substandard amount. Consequently B12 has become a contentious issue.
So where could our distant ancestors have got Vitamin B12 from without eating meat?
Quote:While plants do not naturally contain B12, they may carry some through microbial contamination. Plant-eating primates such as the gorilla (and our human ancestors and many people in developing countries) obtain a plentiful supply of B12 from their consumption of plants due to the presence of insects and bacterial contamination of their plant foods and water. Some primates eat faeces and soil which may also provide a source of B12. When fed a sanitised diet, in a zoo for example, primates often develop B12 deficiency (2).
Gorillas actually eat insects but vegans wouldn't want to do that because they avoid all animal products and insects are animals. Did our remote ancestors eat faeces and soil? Maybe, but I'm sure vegans wouldn't want to do that either. This leaves unwashed fruit and vegetables but there's a problem in 21st century Western civilisation.
Quote:In modern society, fruit and vegetable production is far more sanitised in that fruit and vegetables for sale in supermarkets are washed in chlorine. This removes the B12-producing bacteria and so vegetarians and vegans must obtain vitamin B12 from other sources, this means fortified foods.
So, if our distant ancestors colonised lands where there were no insects, fruit and vegetables available during winter they couldn't visit their nearest supermarket for out of season food and the following -
Quote:The industrial production of vitamin B12 for the fortification of foods involves fermentation with bacteria. Large-scale production is carried out using a number of bacterial species, including for example Pseudomonas denitrificans, Propionibacterium freudenreichii and Propionibacterium shermanii. Bacterial cultures are grown in huge vats for the extraction of B12.
B12 can be obtained from many everyday food items that are fortified such as veggie burger and sausage mixes, yeast extracts, vegetables stocks, margarines, breakfast cereals and soya milks. See below for guide to how much B12 is contained in a range of these foods.
So, as the table shows, the EU recommended daily amount of B12 can be obtained for example from one slice of Meridian yeast extract on toast or one glass of B12–fortified soya milk.
(February 26, 2014 at 9:33 am)Riketto Wrote: Man was never build up to be omnivore as we can see from the different body (teeth, jaw, length of stomach and different acids to digest food) so by going against nature it is clear that damages will occur.
As you're insisting that meat eating is going against nature I'm guessing you follow the natural diet of our remote ancestors. How many insects have you eaten today and how often do you eat soil and faeces?
After hours of googling and reading discussions on vegan forums there's only one thing certain. Vegans and vegetarians still die of something while many people who eat meat live to be old.
(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: What people know today about Buddha come from religious dogmas.
If i would follow your logic i would hear you say that the rosary and
the mass is what Christ was teaching when in fact Christ never teach
that and he was even against such rituals.
You haven't got a clue what meditation is all about.
You never practice tantric meditation and you wouldn't know that
with the inhaling and exhaling there got to be a sound or mantra.
Every vibration in the universe has a sound so when you breath you
also produce a sound whether you are aware or not.
In the tantric meditation this awareness get deeper and deeper
as your meditation get stronger.
You have two choices James.
Or you get real and experience this practice so you can judge
with your own experience or you keep on masturbating your brain
into believing what religions and wiki say.
You are just a fanatic, you can define meditation all you want but plenty of other people disagree with you, and you offer no evidence beyond your own idiotic "insight". You are right that we don't know what Buddha said, not that I care much, but the earliest Buddhist writings are the closest we will ever get. Therefore they are the best source for what the buddha actually believed. Your claims to know that he practices your type of meditation are just the fanatical ravings of a religious fundamentalist.
Quote:Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.
Firstly our bodies are quite good at dealing with cholesterol and saturated fats, it is only in old age when people really start to see the bad effects of meat eating. This is after our reproductive years, which means there is little evolutionary selection pressure to drive improvements in our metabolism. Secondly, take for instance cholesterol since you brought it up. We have HDL in our bodies to scavenge up cholesterol in our blood from our diet into our liver, where it can be used to make bile or further transported around the body. We have HDL precisely to deal with dietary cholesterol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_lipoprotein
Quote:You got stuck in the usual dogma once again.
We usually say.........THE GREEKS as if all the GREEKS behave in the same way when in reality only less of 1% of Greeks had this knowledge.
There is no need to use intuitional knowledge to know this.
The history tell us.
I am not asking if they all believed the earth was round, I am asking you how you know their nervous systems were different.
Quote:You don't need intuition to understand how the humans evolved.
For a million years nothing much happened.
It is only in the last 15000 years that the things started moving
and it is in the last few hundred years that they started moving even faster.
As i said yesterday this is due to the avalanche effect.
That is due to science and technology, the very things you reject when you make appeals to you "insight", not genetics or evolution! Show me the genes that were altered during this evolution of our nervous systems? You cant because you have no idea what you are talking about.
(May 5, 2014 at 3:44 pm)James2014 Wrote: You are just a fanatic, you can define meditation all you want but plenty of other people disagree with you, and you offer no evidence beyond your own idiotic "insight". You are right that we don't know what Buddha said, not that I care much, but the earliest Buddhist writings are the closest we will ever get. Therefore they are the best source for what the buddha actually believed. Your claims to know that he practices your type of meditation are just the fanatical ravings of a religious fundamentalist.
Buddha did not reach the permanent nirvana by following religion.
If i would be religious i would go in a Buddhist temple with some
incense sticks while chanting old mantras like most Buddhists do.
Again James without knowing what is the difference between religion and spirituality you just wonder in a sea of fantasies.
Quote:Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.
Quote:Firstly our bodies are quite good at dealing with cholesterol and saturated fats, it is only in old age when people really start to see the bad effects of meat eating. This is after our reproductive years, which means there is little evolutionary selection pressure to drive improvements in our metabolism. Secondly, take for instance cholesterol since you brought it up. We have HDL in our bodies to scavenge up cholesterol in our blood from our diet into our liver, where it can be used to make bile or further transported around the body. We have HDL precisely to deal with dietary cholesterol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_lipoprotein
There are two types of cholesterol.
LDL the bad one and HDL the good one.
Wonder which one you get when you don't follow a veg. diet.
Quote:I am not asking if they all believed the earth was round, I am asking you how you know their nervous systems were different.
I already answer that question by saying that if they would have had the same nervous system they would also have had the same degree of consciousness which would have allow them to reach the same stage of evolution of ours.
Quote:You don't need intuition to understand how the humans evolved.
For a million years nothing much happened.
It is only in the last 15000 years that the things started moving
and it is in the last few hundred years that they started moving even faster.
As i said yesterday this is due to the avalanche effect.
Quote:That is due to science and technology, the very things you reject when you make appeals to you "insight", not genetics or evolution! Show me the genes that were altered during this evolution of our nervous systems? You cant because you have no idea what you are talking about.
1) Science and technology are two dead things that can be given life when
the consciousness reach a high degree of evolution so it is not due to the
physical aspect that we evolve.
Our far ancestors had the same elements to develop technology but they
could not just because the degree of consciousness was very low.
2) Gregor Mendel spend over 10 years of his life just on one experiment.
To know a little bit about genes you got to study for years and years at the uni.
In both cases one very important thing is missed and that is the fact that
genes are a reflection of the degree of consciousness that we have.
You can be an expert in causes or and expert in effects.
I choose the first.
(May 5, 2014 at 3:44 pm)James2014 Wrote: You are just a fanatic, you can define meditation all you want but plenty of other people disagree with you, and you offer no evidence beyond your own idiotic "insight". You are right that we don't know what Buddha said, not that I care much, but the earliest Buddhist writings are the closest we will ever get. Therefore they are the best source for what the buddha actually believed. Your claims to know that he practices your type of meditation are just the fanatical ravings of a religious fundamentalist.
Buddha did not reach the permanent nirvana by following religion.
If i would be religious i would go in a Buddhist temple with some
incense sticks while chanting old mantras like most Buddhists do.
Again James without knowing what is the difference between religion and spirituality you just wonder in a sea of fantasies.
Quote:Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.
Quote:Firstly our bodies are quite good at dealing with cholesterol and saturated fats, it is only in old age when people really start to see the bad effects of meat eating. This is after our reproductive years, which means there is little evolutionary selection pressure to drive improvements in our metabolism. Secondly, take for instance cholesterol since you brought it up. We have HDL in our bodies to scavenge up cholesterol in our blood from our diet into our liver, where it can be used to make bile or further transported around the body. We have HDL precisely to deal with dietary cholesterol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_lipoprotein
There are two types of cholesterol.
LDL the bad one and HDL the good one.
Wonder which one you get when you don't follow a veg. diet.
Quote:I am not asking if they all believed the earth was round, I am asking you how you know their nervous systems were different.
I already answer that question by saying that if they would have had the same nervous system they would also have had the same degree of consciousness which would have allow them to reach the same stage of evolution of ours.
Quote:You don't need intuition to understand how the humans evolved.
For a million years nothing much happened.
It is only in the last 15000 years that the things started moving
and it is in the last few hundred years that they started moving even faster.
As i said yesterday this is due to the avalanche effect.
Quote:That is due to science and technology, the very things you reject when you make appeals to you "insight", not genetics or evolution! Show me the genes that were altered during this evolution of our nervous systems? You cant because you have no idea what you are talking about.
1) Science and technology are two dead things that can be given life when
the consciousness reach a high degree of evolution so it is not due to the
physical aspect that we evolve.
Our far ancestors had the same elements to develop technology but they
could not just because the degree of consciousness was very low.
2) Gregor Mendel spend over 10 years of his life just on one experiment.
To know a little bit about genes you got to study for years and years at the uni.
In both cases one very important thing is missed and that is the fact that
genes are a reflection of the degree of consciousness that we have.
You can be an expert in causes or and expert in effects.
I choose the first.
Transformation requires exploration. You and I are lifeforms of the cosmos. Have you found your circuit?
Lifeform, look within and awaken yourself. If you have never experienced this uprising through non-local interactions, it can be difficult to reflect. It can be difficult to know where to begin.
Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the quantum soup via sub-atomic particles. Humankind has nothing to lose. Reality has always been beaming with dreamers whose hopes are engulfed in potential. How should you navigate this archetypal solar system? Although you may not realize it, you are spatial. The quantum cycle is calling to you via supercharged electrons. Can you hear it?
Who are we? Where on the great path will we be recreated?
The grid is beaming with bio-feedback. By deepening, we exist. Consciousness consists of frequencies of quantum energy. “Quantum” means an unfolding of the powerful. It is a sign of things to come. This quest never ends. It is time to take peace to the next level.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Wonder which one you get when you don't follow a veg. diet.
Just an aside, but I hate that LDL is described as "bad." As it turns out, it may even be "good."
LDL and HDL are proteins that transport cholesterol to and from your cells, because without cholesterol we would die. Cholesterol is so important to our survival that it can be produced by every single cell in your body. The issue is one of ratio, which makes cholesterol like pretty much every vitamin or mineral that we ingest. And the best way to increase HDL and lower LDL is to exercise and eat lean meats and vegetables.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
May 6, 2014 at 9:38 am (This post was last modified: May 6, 2014 at 9:40 am by Confused Ape.)
(May 6, 2014 at 9:19 am)Chas Wrote: “Quantum” means an unfolding of the powerful. It is a sign of things to come. This quest never ends. It is time to take peace to the next level.
And how do we do that?
The universe is a hologram manifested by Cosmic Consciousness.
The whole of creation is contained in that bit of fluff on the carpet which also contains the whole of creation.
Become like that bit of fluff so the powerful unfolds within you.
