(May 5, 2014 at 3:25 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: Dogs are naturally designed to eat meat but -

......but the problem is that the meat come in cans not fresh from the butcher.
What this means?
It means that the meat is mixed with preservatives and all sort o'sh..
This is not natural that is why the dogs get sick.

Quote:So where could our distant ancestors have got Vitamin B12 from without eating meat?

So where the majority of Gujarati people of India that have been veg.
for countless generation get the b12?
They never take b12 supplement.
They are healthy people so most of the other veg. around the world
me included.
The only veg. people i see in hospitals are there usually due to accident
not for reason related to other causes.

Quote:B12 can be obtained from many everyday food items that are fortified such as veggie burger and sausage mixes, yeast extracts, vegetables stocks, margarines, breakfast cereals and soya milks. See below for guide to how much B12 is contained in a range of these foods.

Thanks for your advise.

Quote:As you're insisting that meat eating is going against nature I'm guessing you follow the natural diet of our remote ancestors. How many insects have you eaten today and how often do you eat soil and faeces?

So you know for sure that our ancestors normal diet include .hit?

Quote:After hours of googling and reading discussions on vegan forums there's only one thing certain. Vegans and vegetarians still die of something while many people who eat meat live to be old.

Yeah.
My grandfather die at 96.
He was drinking liters of wine and smoking 2 cigars a day
plus some meat once a week.
I should follow his way of life.
What an idea!

---

(May 6, 2014 at 9:19 am)Chas Wrote: Transformation requires exploration. You and I are lifeforms of the cosmos. Have you found your circuit?
Lifeform, look within and awaken yourself. If you have never experienced this uprising through non-local interactions, it can be difficult to reflect. It can be difficult to know where to begin.
Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the quantum soup via sub-atomic particles. Humankind has nothing to lose. Reality has always been beaming with dreamers whose hopes are engulfed in potential. How should you navigate this archetypal solar system? Although you may not realize it, you are spatial. The quantum cycle is calling to you via supercharged electrons. Can you hear it?
Who are we? Where on the great path will we be recreated?
The grid is beaming with bio-feedback. By deepening, we exist. Consciousness consists of frequencies of quantum energy. “Quantum” means an unfolding of the powerful. It is a sign of things to come. This quest never ends. It is time to take peace to the next level.

You are free to believe that we are coming from that continuum of that physical force that give life.
The only problem with this theory is that consciousness is not physical
so it is obvious to me that it can not be generated by something physical.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote:

(May 5, 2014 at 3:44 pm)James2014 Wrote: You are just a fanatic, you can define meditation all you want but plenty of other people disagree with you, and you offer no evidence beyond your own idiotic "insight". You are right that we don't know what Buddha said, not that I care much, but the earliest Buddhist writings are the closest we will ever get. Therefore they are the best source for what the buddha actually believed. Your claims to know that he practices your type of meditation are just the fanatical ravings of a religious fundamentalist.

Buddha did not reach the permanent nirvana by following religion.
If i would be religious i would go in a Buddhist temple with some
incense sticks while chanting old mantras like most Buddhists do.
Again James without knowing what is the difference between religion and spirituality you just wonder in a sea of fantasies.

The Buddha reached enlightenment by meditating under a Bodhi tree, with the ultimate conclusion that meditating without action was a stupid way to end suffering.

Quote:Nirvāṇa is a term used in Hinduism,[11][12] Jainism,[13] Buddhism,[12][14] and Sikhism.[15] It leads to moksha, liberation from samsara, or release from a state of suffering, after an often lengthy period of bhāvanā[note 5] or sādhanā.

Nirvana was adopted from Hinduism, and only becomes part of Buddhist meditation in later traditions: after Buddhism was formally codified into a religion.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote:

Quote:Before you come down with this garbage you should explain why the
the human beings CAN NOT deal with saturated fats, cholesterol
and toxin while omnivore animals can.

Quote:Firstly our bodies are quite good at dealing with cholesterol and saturated fats, it is only in old age when people really start to see the bad effects of meat eating. This is after our reproductive years, which means there is little evolutionary selection pressure to drive improvements in our metabolism. Secondly, take for instance cholesterol since you brought it up. We have HDL in our bodies to scavenge up cholesterol in our blood from our diet into our liver, where it can be used to make bile or further transported around the body. We have HDL precisely to deal with dietary cholesterol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_lipoprotein

There are two types of cholesterol.
LDL the bad one and HDL the good one.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions...rticle.jsp

Wonder which one you get when you don't follow a veg. diet.

Except that is patently false:

The American Heart Association Wrote:The American Heart Association recommends eating at least two servings of fish a week. The highest levels of omega-3 fatty acids are in:

Mackerel
Lake trout
Herring
Sardines
Albacore tuna
Salmon
Halibut

---

You should bake or grill the fish to avoid adding unhealthy fats. If you don't like fish, you can also get small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids from foods like ground flaxseed or canola oil.

You can take an omega-3 or fish oil supplement to get some of the benefits, but you won't get other nutrients in fish, such as selenium.

---

If you decide to take a supplement, just remember to watch your diet and eat lean meat or vegetables in place of fish.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...t-20045192

Note that vegetarian diets are only recommended with an additional supplement to replace the nutrients found in lean meat and fish.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote:

Quote:I am not asking if they all believed the earth was round, I am asking you how you know their nervous systems were different.

I already answer that question by saying that if they would have had the same nervous system they would also have had the same degree of consciousness which would have allow them to reach the same stage of evolution of ours.

That is not what evolution actually states. Put down the Deepak Chopra, and pick up an actual science book, or at least Your Inner Fish.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote:

Quote:You don't need intuition to understand how the humans evolved.
For a million years nothing much happened.
It is only in the last 15000 years that the things started moving
and it is in the last few hundred years that they started moving even faster.
As i said yesterday this is due to the avalanche effect.

Quote:That is due to science and technology, the very things you reject when you make appeals to you "insight", not genetics or evolution! Show me the genes that were altered during this evolution of our nervous systems? You cant because you have no idea what you are talking about.

1) Science and technology are two dead things that can be given life when
the consciousness reach a high degree of evolution so it is not due to the
physical aspect that we evolve.
Our far ancestors had the same elements to develop technology but they
could not just because the degree of consciousness was very low.
2) Gregor Mendel spend over 10 years of his life just on one experiment.
To know a little bit about genes you got to study for years and years at the uni.
In both cases one very important thing is missed and that is the fact that
genes are a reflection of the degree of consciousness that we have.
You can be an expert in causes or and expert in effects.
I choose the first.

So an expert in magical thinking, and a lack of basic science literacy. If one doesn't know the basic causes for effects, it's easy to entertain all sorts of ridiculous causes and claims.

Like "the Human CNS evolved so far in 2,000 years, acupuncture is no longer effective."

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote: In both cases one very important thing is missed and that is the fact that
genes are a reflection of the degree of consciousness that we have.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: but the problem is that the meat come in cans not fresh from the butcher.
What this means?
It means that the meat is mixed with preservatives and all sort o'sh..
This is not natural that is why the dogs get sick.

Even meat which is fresh from the butcher isn't natural. Animals are given growth promoting drugs and antibiotics and then the meat is treated to keep it looking appetizing etc.

Quote:70 percent of all beef and chicken sold in the United States, Canada, UK and Australia and many other countries contain a growing number of preservatives, meat glues, and antibacterial/antifungal/antiviral sprays. They also are commonly treated with carbon monoxide gas injections to make meat appear more fresh than it actually is.

Our remote ancestors ate meat which was free from all these additives. The world wasn't poisoned with industrial pollution and pesticides back then either.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: So where the majority of Gujarati people of India that have been veg.
for countless generation get the b12? They never take b12 supplement.

Maybe their fruit and veg haven't been washed in chlorine to remove the vitamin B12 bacteria. Or maybe they still get the bacteria from their drinking water. This is all supposing that the information in the article I quoted from in an earlier post is correct, of course, because it's on a vegan and vegetarian website. I suspect that the author is biased but trying to find an unbiased opinion on the subject is very difficult because pro-meat eaters can be very biased too.

People didn't know about Vitamin B12 in the past but word is getting round.

Nutrients required for a healthy Jain Vegan lifestyle

Quote:Vitamin B12

B12 is only found in Animal products (where bacteria produce the B12 in their bodies)

We need to get our Vitamin B12 levels checked and suppliment as required

Vegan supplements of Vitamin B12 made directly from bacteria are available

Q: Is it not hinsa to kill bacteria for B12? A:Yes but this is better than killing a 5 sensed being for B12

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: They are healthy people

I found an interesting article on the Times Of India website. Heart diseases are in Gujarati gene

Quote:Interestingly, the genome has established the hunch of local doctors — Gujaratis have a genetic predisposition to hypertension and heart disease.

Apart from high BP and heart disease, the study has revealed that although there are no signs of neurological disorders like Parkinson's and Alzheimer, this individual is genetically susceptible to develop such disease.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: So you know for sure that our ancestors normal diet include .hit?

That piece of information came from the vegan/vegetarian website and is one of the reasons why I suspect that the author is biased.

Ancestra Diet According To Vegan Author

Quote:Plant-eating primates such as the gorilla (and our human ancestors and many people in developing countries) obtain a plentiful supply of B12 from their consumption of plants due to the presence of insects and bacterial contamination of their plant foods and water. Some primates eat faeces and soil which may also provide a source of B12. When fed a sanitised diet, in a zoo for example, primates often develop B12 deficiency (2).

She forgot to mention that the chimpanzee, our closes relative which shares a common ancestor with us, likes to eat a bit of meat on occasion.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: Yeah.
My grandfather die at 96.
He was drinking liters of wine and smoking 2 cigars a day
plus some meat once a week.
I should follow his way of life.
What an idea!

---

As I said in another post, it doesn't pay to be dogmatic about these things. Maybe the real truth is that we adapted to eating some meat but we now eat far too much of it etc.etc.

The way I see it, there are two main issues concerned with meat eating in our modern world.

1: Ethics because of the way animals and birds are raised and slaughtered for the meat industry.
2: Practicality because of the amount of resources used to produce a pound of meat compared to producing a pound of vegetables.

Going vegan or vegetarian still has ethical considerations, though, because many foods manufactured for vegans/vegetarians contain palm oil. Where do the manufacturers get it from? After all, there's no point feeling virtuous about eating a veggie burger if rain forest has been destroyed in order to produce one of the ingredients.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: The only problem with this theory is that consciousness is not physical
so it is obvious to me that it can not be generated by something physical.

Even if consciousness isn't physical it still has to operate through the human brain. This brings us back to the question of what human consciousness is. Take your pick from the following article.

Consciousness

(May 6, 2014 at 11:52 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(May 6, 2014 at 9:07 am)Riketto Wrote: In both cases one very important thing is missed and that is the fact that
genes are a reflection of the degree of consciousness that we have.

:roflol:

"Our consciousness regulates a symphony of life"

"Self power compliments a jumble of energy"

"Infinity serves universal brains"

"Perception results from total self-knowledge"

"The secret of the universe experiences your own mysteries"

http://www.wisdomofchopra.com

Someone could generate a whole Riketto post this way.

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: You are free to believe that we are coming from that continuum of that physical force that give life.
The only problem with this theory is that consciousness is not physical
so it is obvious to me that it can not be generated by something physical.

If you have never experienced this flow at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe. Have you found your circuit? The quantum cycle is calling to you via supercharged electrons. Can you hear it?

Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the grid via superpositions of possibilities. Reality has always been full of beings whose third eyes are nurtured by divinity. We are in the midst of a transformative summoning of potential that will enable us to access the world itself.

It can be difficult to know where to begin. Although you may not realize it, you are quantum. The quantum soup is calling to you via a resonance cascade. Can you hear it?

It's saying "stop posting and go to school"

(May 7, 2014 at 7:11 pm)Chas Wrote:

(May 6, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: You are free to believe that we are coming from that continuum of that physical force that give life.
The only problem with this theory is that consciousness is not physical
so it is obvious to me that it can not be generated by something physical.

If you have never experienced this flow at the quantum level, it can be difficult to believe. Have you found your circuit? The quantum cycle is calling to you via supercharged electrons. Can you hear it?

Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the grid via superpositions of possibilities. Reality has always been full of beings whose third eyes are nurtured by divinity. We are in the midst of a transformative summoning of potential that will enable us to access the world itself.

It can be difficult to know where to begin. Although you may not realize it, you are quantum. The quantum soup is calling to you via a resonance cascade. Can you hear it?

Supercharged electrons?
There is something infinitely smaller than electrons.
Sarkar call them microvita.

http://www.ru.org/future-studies/microvi...ution.html

and this microvita is much more powerful than supercharged electrons.

(May 5, 2014 at 10:00 am)Riketto Wrote: Consciousness without spirituality can be very very dangerous.
With more consciousness you get more awareness of your potential
That however does not means that you will use such a potential in the right way.
The industrial revolution of the recent past and the more efficient
ways of killing more people than in the past are both due to an increase in consciousness.
Without spirituality you are in the hands of the two opposite forces
(positive and negative or yin and yang).
Spirituality is 100% positive and 0% negative so only consciousness+ spirituality lead to real progress.
Consciousness without spirituality may or may not lead to progress
as well as regress.