(June 7, 2014 at 2:39 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

Quote:I hate the rape of the English language, I hate being called names, I hate being insulted and degraded; but I cannot change how others choose to have speaks with people, they have a right to let things roll off of their tongues in any manner that they wish.

Thus, if one holds the right to mangle their words in speech, then they hold the right to believe in anything that they wish to mangle in their beliefs.

I am not above making mistakes myself. I am so used to seeing theists argue about death being a numbers game his second sentence threw me off. I am glad even when theists agree that religion divides too much to the point of bloodshed. Having said that, the defense of religion by the believers part comes from somewhere. And just like a dictator, the Gods of Abraham you cannot remove from their position, thus those concepts are in line with that of a dictator. What allowed Stalin and Hitler merely was the same attitude of obedience to authority and worship of the state. God belief requires the same.

Religion has no doubt muddied the waters of how god is viewed. In my view, if I may be allowed to say I have one, the view of god I believe in is that he is a supreme ruler, he is a dictator, and I do see the only way to deal with him is to serve him and obey him. BUT, we have been given a perverted distorted view of how he is. If I may be excused and allowed one biblical scripture, or two; Gal. 5:22-23 describes just how god really is said to be; " He is loving, joyful, peaceful, kind, gentle, good, faithful, patient, longsuffering and meek."

Religion does not teach this. This is how god really is. Now, IF a ruler is like that, then he dictates in those terms. When the ruler is good and kind the people are safe. If he is loving and gentle, the people can rejoice and honor him, admire him. The way that religion has killed and deceived, is not a reflection on the true god. I think god kills, like atheist would kill, for the right reasons. However theist and atheist cannot rekindle a dead person, where as god can; so what he kills, he keeps. And has other plans for the kill in the future.

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(June 7, 2014 at 2:47 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 12:35 pm)mickiel Wrote: even the number of atheist is declining;

http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/global-study-...n-decline/

I don't make stuff up, you just misunderstand my stuff.

Quote:(CNS News) Atheism is in decline worldwide, with the number of atheists falling from 4.5% of the world’s population in 1970 to 2.0% in 2010 and projected to drop to 1.8% by 2020, according to a new report by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass.

Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary

Quote:Gordon–Conwell Theological Seminary (GCTS) is an evangelical seminary whose main campus is based in South Hamilton, Massachusetts, with three other campuses in Boston, Massachusetts; Charlotte, North Carolina; and Jacksonville, Florida. The current president of Gordon-Conwell is Dennis Hollinger, a Christian ethicist.[1] According to the Association of Theological Schools, Gordon-Conwell ranks as one of the largest evangelical seminaries in North America in terms of total number of full-time students enrolled.[2]

Is it possible that the people doing this study were somewhat biased and this influenced their findings?

Of course its possible.

(June 7, 2014 at 1:17 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 1:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: The world wasn't designed at all. It's the result of a cascading series of physical phenomena happening one after the other, scaffolding itself up to complexity from simpler beginnings in line with consistent laws of physics. No matter the amount of emotionally charged rhetoric you inject into that description in order to horrify the prideful nature of theists, you won't change the fact that all of this comes not out of design, but out of simple consequences, unconscious and unguided.

Yea, so we just got insanely lucky , and atheist are spreading the story of mammoth luck like religion spreads its story of insane hell.

Both pimping the incredible.

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(June 7, 2014 at 1:14 pm)One Above All Wrote: If you gain five dollars ($5) and have ten dollars ($10) in your possession, for a total of fifteen dollars ($15), then I take seven dollars ($7) from you, how much did you gain? The answer is "nothing". In fact, you lost two dollars ($2), based on what you had prior to receiving the five dollars ($5).

Well if I use your formula, both atheist and religion are declining. May have helped if religion went after more men, and atheism had more than just mostly white men.

How can they both be declining? Are you saying there's a rise in agnosticism or a decrease in human population?

(June 7, 2014 at 2:57 pm)Losty Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 1:17 pm)mickiel Wrote: Yea, so we just got insanely lucky , and atheist are spreading the story of mammoth luck like religion spreads its story of insane hell.

Both pimping the incredible.

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Well if I use your formula, both atheist and religion are declining. May have helped if religion went after more men, and atheism had more than just mostly white men.

How can they both be declining? Are you saying there's a rise in agnosticism or a decrease in human population?

I think the number of " unreligious " people is growing, but not all of that group can be considered atheist. Its hard to distinguish. Human population is growing.

Hmm. So, if they do not believe in a religion, what are they?

(June 7, 2014 at 2:10 pm)mickiel Wrote: The happenstance view is uncomfortable. I do not accept it. Its a chance filling of a serious hole in you're philosophy

And what, pray, is this "serious hole"?

Quote: As you attempt to cover up god, you do so be altering creation from a preplanned event to now an incredible roll of mythical universal dice.

I have no need to "cover up" god, dear: one doesn't need to cover up something that hasn't been evidenced, as it might well be that there's nothing to actually cover. I believe you've been told this before, but it isn't our job to refute every wild assertion you make.

As to the rest of your sentence, you seem incapable of stepping back and letting go of your assumption that the universe was created even in your refutation of my statement from a position where it was not. Your argument here is little more than, "you say the universe wasn't created, but that can't be true because it was created, and you're just reaching to make it seem otherwise."

My question is, is this total lack of empathy due to an unwillingness to even entertain that someone else might not agree with you on this, or an inability to see that?

(June 7, 2014 at 3:07 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 2:57 pm)Losty Wrote: How can they both be declining? Are you saying there's a rise in agnosticism or a decrease in human population?

I think the number of " unreligious " people is growing, but not all of that group can be considered atheist. Its hard to distinguish. Human population is growing.

So you're going with a rise in agnosticism?

(June 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: Hmm. So, if they do not believe in a religion, what are they?

Now that group can be interesting , and its a lot of them. They could be secularism, free thinkers, naturalist, some factions of deism, humanist, agnostic, or even non-atheist.

mickiel Wrote:if I may be allowed to say I have one, the view of god I believe in is that he is a supreme ruler, he is a dictator, and I do see the only way to deal with him is to serve him and obey him

Thats on you, I don't worship dictators, no matter how you want to paint them or how you think we "misunderstand" them.

A dictator is a dictator. Congratulations you worship a dictator. Nothing to be proud of.

(June 7, 2014 at 3:21 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm)Dragonetti Wrote: Hmm. So, if they do not believe in a religion, what are they?

Now that group can be interesting , and its a lot of them. They could be secularism, free thinkers, naturalist, some factions of deism, humanist, agnostic, or even non-atheist.

So agnostics and atheists.

Esquilax Wrote:My question is, is this total lack of empathy due to an unwillingness to even entertain that someone else might not agree with you on this, or an inability to see that?

Neither, its a result of research, history, education, science, common sense, logic, and academics. From all the combined information I have, god is real. I both can explain it, and not explain it. On one site, http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/genera...scussions/
, I had a thread, " Is god real", and I went at it for 4 years explaining how god is real. 4 long years I explained it from every angle I could think of; and in all that time, I have never seen a single shred of evidence that he does not exist.

I know we view evidence different here, as well as proof; evidence produces belief that something is true, and that is considered proof. I don't tell atheist they made the wrong choice, I simply see it as their karma; their place in life.

And I view theist as being where they should be.

And I stand in a different place, agreeing and disagreeing with things in both disciplines.