So, I recently started up a forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith and related subjects called Baha'i Discussion. I did this because the more popular Baha'i forum I frequent no longer has any moderators, and the admin has disappeared as well.

I'm posting this here because I have a dedicated irreligion forum on Baha'i Discussion, and I would appreciate it if some of the people here would help create threads on the irreligion forum.

I'm not going to link to it here, but if anyone is interested they can PM me and I will send them the link.

For those that do check it out, a warning: there is almost zero content right now. I just created this today and am in the process of starting threads in each of the forums.

Whats baha'i?

(June 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Insanity Wrote: Whats baha'i?

It's the religion I practice. It was founded in the 1800s, in Persia (modern Iran), by Baha'u'llah. He taught that humanity was nearing maturity, and it was time for divisions based on race, gender, religion, and nation be eliminated.
He taught that all races are one.
That men and women are equal (an idea that was quite radical at the time, especially in Persia!).
That all religions are in fact worshipping the same God.
And that the time of nationalism was coming to an end, to be replaced with a more united globe.

I created a dedicated Irreligion forum on my new Baha'i forums because there are several atheists on the other Baha'i forum I frequent, and I felt they might appreciate having someplace to talk about their own (lack of) beliefs.

(June 25, 2014 at 6:42 pm)zanOTK Wrote: It's the religion I practice. It was founded in the 1800s, in Persia (modern Iran), by Baha'u'llah. He taught that humanity was nearing maturity, and it was time for divisions based on race, gender, religion, and nation be eliminated.
He taught that all races are one.
That men and women are equal (an idea that was quite radical at the time, especially in Persia!).

Why does one need a religion or a faith to believe, based on principles of common sense, that all humans are born equal under natural law?

Quote:That all religions are in fact worshipping the same God.

That can't be true. It's like saying triangles, circles, and squares are all the same shapes.

(June 25, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Why does one need a religion or a faith to believe, based on principles of common sense, that all humans are born equal under natural law?

You don't. It was, however, quite an odd statement at the time.

Quote:That can't be true. It's like saying triangles, circles, and squares are all the same shapes.

Why can't it be true that all religions are worshipping the same God?

(June 25, 2014 at 8:38 pm)zanOTK Wrote:

(June 25, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Why does one need a religion or a faith to believe, based on principles of common sense, that all humans are born equal under natural law?

You don't. It was, however, quite an odd statement at the time.

Quote:That can't be true. It's like saying triangles, circles, and squares are all the same shapes.

Why can't it be true that all religions are worshipping the same God?

Because they're all different. If the definitions of God are not the same, then you're not talking about the same being, as a being is defined by its properties. A being that is said to be three persons, who sent his son to die, and offers salvation to the world to all who believe, is not the same as a being who is not three persons, did not have a son, and requires strict adherence to the Five Pillars. And the Gods only get more different and obscure from there.

And why does a revolutionary idea justify a faith? If that's a criteria, who more revolutionary for his time can you find in history than Newton? Why not start a "Newtonian faith," whatever that means, and follow that?

(June 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(June 25, 2014 at 8:38 pm)zanOTK Wrote: You don't. It was, however, quite an odd statement at the time.


Why can't it be true that all religions are worshipping the same God?

Because they're all different. If the definitions of God are not the same, then you're not talking about the same being, as a being is defined by its properties. A being that is said to be three persons, who sent his son to die, and offers salvation to the world to all who believe, is not the same as a being who is not three persons, did not have a son, and requires strict adherence to the Five Pillars. And the Gods only get more different and obscure from there.

And why does a revolutionary idea justify a faith? If that's a criteria, who more revolutionary for his time can you find in history than Newton? Why not start a "Newtonian faith," whatever that means, and follow that?

First, I'll say that this thread isn't about the Baha'i Faith, it's about the forum I started and is an invitation to some of the members here to help make some content for the Irreligion section. After this post, if you're still interested in talking about the subject, I will create a separate thread for it.

Now, on to my actual response.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, since I am an individual believer and not exactly the most educated in the Baha'i Writings. I've only been a Baha'i for two and a half years, so some of the things I say are not representative of all Baha'is.

Baha'is believe in a God that is Unknowable in Essence, Unseen, Separate from His Creation (this does not include a belief in "Biblical Creationism", Baha'is are evolutionists).We believe that the closest we can get to knowing God is knowing His Manifestations, which reflect the attributes of God. And while each Manifestation reflected all of the attributes of God, some had one or more that were dominant. This, in part, results in different views of God. Another thing that resulted in different views was misunderstanding the different attributes as totally separate deities. This can be seen in Hinduism, which to this day has certain schools that teach all the gods are actually facets of One God.
Related to this is further human error, misinterpreting the teachings of the Manifestations. Example: the Trinity. There is little, if any, evidence that the early Christians believed in the Trinity. In fact, the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament are strongly monotheistic. The Trinity teaching evolved long after the death of Christ and the Apostles, and eventually became doctrine. But it does not appear to be part of Christ's original teachings.

As for your question about revolutionary ideas and religions...
It actually went the other way around. The Bab (forerunner of Baha'u'llah, similar to John the Baptist in Christianity) started teaching and gathering followers, and these revolutionary ideas were just part of His teachings. Then Baha'u'llah began His own ministry, continuing and building upon the teachings of the Bab. Those are also not all of His teachings. There were quite a bit more than that, those are just the ones we usually list off first.

Now, would you like to continue this conversation? I'm cool either way, but I would like to do so on a separate thread so this one can continue to be on its original subject.

Whatever's clever, zan. I'm interested in learning more about your faith but I find your point about Christian belief in the Trinity and the broader cohesiveness of various Gods unpersuasive.

And sorry for derailing your original topic.

(June 26, 2014 at 12:30 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Whatever's clever, zan. I'm interested in learning more about your faith but I find your point about Christian belief in the Trinity and the broader cohesiveness of various Gods unpersuasive.

And sorry for derailing your original topic.

Hey, it's cool man. And I'm not too worried about persuading you about anything. I'm not trying to convert you, so it's not all that important, lol.

I'll go ahead and make another thread.