(July 8, 2014 at 3:47 pm)logicalreason Wrote: Let me clarify. Theists like Christians and Muslims believe God decides for them what is wrong and what is right in their Holy Books.

Actually it's us that has to clarify this for you. We know what you meant, it's just horseshit to call an atheist his own god when he doesn't believe in gods in the first place.

(July 8, 2014 at 3:47 pm)logicalreason Wrote: As atheists, don't we decide this for ourselves, without resorting to God telling us what to do, we decide this for ourselves?

Theists do as well, that was my point. Even if they think it's coming from a god, it's not, we have to make all the laws ourselves, we've refined the law many dozens of times. And it's not coming from ancient goat herders who didn't know the first thing about morality, it's coming from people. In fact, I'd say a theist conforms most with secular morality in the modern day anyway since people don't really follow the moral laws of most religions anymore outside of maybe Islam.

(July 8, 2014 at 3:47 pm)logicalreason Wrote: Let me clarify. Theists like Christians and Muslims believe God decides for them what is wrong and what is right in their Holy Books. As atheists, don't we decide this for ourselves, without resorting to God telling us what to do, we decide this for ourselves?

Everyone decides for themselves, but you're right that most atheists do not credit their decisions about right and wrong to any supernatural being.

This is brilliant in its own way. This is more synonymous with Satanists and Hindus though. God is really a very vague concept and has no real meaning because every religion just blurs this even further. God is anthropomorphic, transcendent, physical, hateful, loving, benign, malevolent, male, female, asexual or has varying ethics and mythology.
There mere word god is far to subjective and when I think of it I think of something that is never even mentioned in religious text books at all. When you say god to an atheist you can only imagine how we feel. The only concrete definition for god would actually be something that describes the subjectivity of it.

mmm. . . still no one can counter this argument through valid logical premises. . .

Main argument

(June 23, 2014 at 10:33 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Premise 1: No god (0) -> Direct intitution with nature and reality, independent observation of reality and without illusion
Premise 2: Only Allah (1)

Say: He, Allah, is One. (112.1)

Contradictorily. . .

Premise 1: I am God (1) -> Self/Ego as Primary God -> Egoic Consciousness -> Basis of Atheist/Theist point of view -> Both philosophies are illusions, based on wrong premises
Premise 2: Only Allah (1) -> Oneness -> Self-State to separate "self" and its conventions of perception and thought (illusion)

Explanation

The Dogma of Atheism

(July 8, 2014 at 8:10 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: mmm. . . still no one can counter this argument through valid logical premises. . .

Main argument

(June 23, 2014 at 10:33 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Premise 1: No god (0) -> Direct intitution with nature and reality, independent observation of reality and without illusion
Premise 2: Only Allah (1)

Say: He, Allah, is One. (112.1)

Contradictorily. . .

Premise 1: I am God (1) -> Self/Ego as Primary God -> Egoic Consciousness -> Basis of Atheist/Theist point of view -> Both philosophies are illusions, based on wrong premises
Premise 2: Only Allah (1) -> Oneness -> Self-State to separate "self" and its conventions of perception and thought (illusion)

Explanation

The Dogma of Atheism

Dude...gonna keep posting this until you make any sense.

(July 8, 2014 at 4:52 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: This is more synonymous with Satanists and Hindus though.

I like Hindus God. People during those days preserve messages through statues, stone, drawing etc. . . Therefore, I believe it is their Book and have nothing to do with Satan etc. . .

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(July 8, 2014 at 4:52 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: When you say god to an atheist you can only imagine how we feel. The only concrete definition for god would actually be something that describes the subjectivity of it.

I am just pointing out the facts, and people can pretend and deny, but that does not change what they truly are. . . they are who they are. .

(July 4, 2014 at 12:55 am)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Atheism (or the conception that no "Creator-God" — or any other Greater Reality — exists) has always opposed theism (or "God-religion"). Nevertheless, atheistic ideas are the product of the same fundamental egoic consciousness that otherwise produces theistic (or conventional "religious") ideas.

Atheism is the product of the ego (or the phenomenal "self", grounded in elemental perception), and so also is theism. Atheism, like exoteric "God-religion", extends itself only into the domain of the first three stages of life — whereas esoteric "God-religion" provides a means for entering, mystically and Spiritually, into the developmental processes of the fourth stage of life and the fifth stage of life.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote:

(July 8, 2014 at 4:52 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: This is more synonymous with Satanists and Hindus though.

I like Hindus God. People during those days preserve messages through statues, stone, drawing etc. . . Therefore, I believe it is their Book and have nothing to do with Satan etc. . .

I am talking about Satanism. Satanism is atheistic but more specifically auto-theistic. I used to be a Satanist back int he day(few years ago lol). Satanists assert that the only possible existence for a god could be oneself and that no such thing as an external god exist so by this definition humans themselves are gods.
Hindus have a similar concept when it comes to Brahman and especially in the Shaivite school which I heavily enjoyed. This is why Shaivites excessively meditate because reflection upon oneself is reflection upon god.

I also admit to be an auto-theist by default and love religious rituals despite my strong anti-theism statements . May myself bless me!

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(July 8, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: I am just pointing out the facts, and people can pretend and deny, but that does not change what they truly are. . . they are who they are. .

I actually agree with you but I am just addressing that your thoughts are not new and actually very old. The issue is that atheists will not admit to t he benefits of religious thought and especially mystical though.

Hinduism is mystical by default and it helped me develop character and a very strong sense of mind and also helped me become an atheist and taught me how to handle my atheism in a logical manner. I developed a very eclectic mind and have been able to live with peace at myself because of this. I am a very religious heathen despite being an atheist.

@Rabb Allah

He might tell the truth but not the whole truth, so as the link I gave above. . They have failed to distinguish about sensory perception, as 1 and as 0. Therefore their conclusion about God is not the truth. . .it is mix of truth and falsehood, common strategy. . . and in the end, there will be someone on that place.

Contradictorily, the Quran absolutely rejects "God", and even Allah is not God. So there is no way that God exists. It is impossible. The only God is human beings.

Primary God: Self/Ego
Secondary God: Allah, Jesus, Lord Krishna etc. . . . ie. the idea.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: @Rabb Allah

He might tell the truth but not the whole truth, so as the link I gave above. . They have failed to distinguish about sensory perception, as 1 and as 0. Therefore their conclusion about God is not the truth. . .it is mix of truth and falsehood, common strategy. . . and in the end, there will be someone on that place.

Contradictorily, the Quran absolutely rejects "God", and even Allah is not God. So there is no way that God exists. It is impossible. The only God is human beings.

Primary God: Self/Ego
Secondary God: Allah, Jesus, Lord Krishna etc. . . . ie. the idea.

HOLY FUCKING HELL! You realized what I have realized lol. Are you asserting that in the Qur'an the lack of mulji'zad? I thought I was the only idiot who noticed this!
You seem to be going on a different scale then myself but I will make a separate thread for this.

(July 8, 2014 at 8:36 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: Hinduism is mystical by default and it helped me develop character and a very strong sense of mind and also helped me become an atheist and taught me how to handle my atheism in a logical manner. I developed a very eclectic mind and have been able to live with peace at myself because of this. I am a very religious heathen despite being an atheist.

Religion is irrelevant. . what matter is the journey to oneness. I myself don't believe in religion. . . therefore I am free to practice any religions, ie. simply because I don't believe in religion. IMO one cannot disbelieve in other Gods by creating new same God, and one cannot disbelieve in religions by creating new same religion. It is just hypocrisy. Therefore any practices is okay, as long it is the same journey to separate "self" and its conventions of perception and thought (illusion). . . I believe you are on your way to become or already are a True Atheist, ie. no god . . the psychological evolution from the egoic consciousness (duality) to self consciousness (unity).

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(July 8, 2014 at 8:47 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote:

(July 8, 2014 at 8:43 pm)Muslim Atheism Wrote: @Rabb Allah

He might tell the truth but not the whole truth, so as the link I gave above. . They have failed to distinguish about sensory perception, as 1 and as 0. Therefore their conclusion about God is not the truth. . .it is mix of truth and falsehood, common strategy. . . and in the end, there will be someone on that place.

Contradictorily, the Quran absolutely rejects "God", and even Allah is not God. So there is no way that God exists. It is impossible. The only God is human beings.

Primary God: Self/Ego
Secondary God: Allah, Jesus, Lord Krishna etc. . . . ie. the idea.

HOLY FUCKING HELL! You realized what I have realized lol. Are you asserting that in the Qur'an the lack of mulji'zad? I thought I was the only idiot who noticed this!
You seem to be going on a different scale then myself but I will make a separate thread for this.

IMO mukjizat is nonsense. . .and yeah, Allah is not a God. . it is just for human understanding, human terms since no one can understand Allah on its own, and there is an "interpretation provision" of Allah in the Quran (refer here). . similarly, this what this thread all about. . . God never existed at all, and it is a human duty to prove God does not exists, ie . through psychological evolution from the egoic consciousness (duality) to self consciousness (unity). . .experiencing the Oneness by separating the "self" and its conventions of perception and thought, the illusion.

Premise 1: No God
Premise 2: Only Allah

Premises in negative form (No God), and affirmative form (Only Allah). Two contradictory premises, "No" and "Only" (yes). Therefore it is impossible for Allah to be a God and invalidating the first premise of "No God". There is no way Allah is a God.